I hate Windows 98.

[megahertzman]

Yes, that's all I had to say.

[HalfaBee]

I hate windoze too.

I upgraded to XP its a bit better but now I need a faster computer :(
and some of my favorite software won't work.

HalfaBee

[megahertzman]

Is Win XP good enough? Because within a week I'll be getting a new computer, most likely with Windows XP Home.

[zeroseven]

XP s'all good :cool:

[Laurey]

I've had XP for awhile now.. upgraded from 98SE (well.. did a format/fresh install.. but that's what everyone means when they say upgrade.. right????). It is more stable than 98, by a LOT. I did notice a drop in processing speed.. but an increase in network communication speed and boot-up.

Not sure why they feel the need to hide things (anyone want to start a pool on how long it took Laurey to find DeFrag???) or move things around.. but once I got used to it.. LOVE IT.

Course.. you couldn't make me touch ME w/a 15ft pole... but that's a story for another day ;)
-L

[RSaucier]

I'm a fan of XP...Pro anyway. A friend just got a new Sony Vaio laptop and has had all kinds of issues with XP Home.

I'd see if you can get Pro on the new 'puter. Runs fine on a 1GHz/256MB system...even runs acceptably on a 750MHz.

IMO, XP is MUCH more stable than any of the 9x code-base and has been more stable than Win2000 for me. I leave my 'puter on 24x7 and I may reboot once a month --- by CHOICE! :)

[(jj)]

Laurey,

You do know what the "ME" stood for don't you? It was Microsofts Masochistic Experience.

But then I've heard some say that XP stands for Xtremely Painful

[zeroseven]

Originally posted by Laurey
Not sure why they feel the need to hide things (anyone want to start a pool on how long it took Laurey to find DeFrag???) or move things around.. but once I got used to it[/B]

You know, there IS a way to set back the settings to the way Windows 98/etc was. I set it back like that, except for the look... the slightly bubbly look is cool :D


Course.. you couldn't make me touch ME w/a 15ft pole... but that's a story for another day ;)

Hahahaha :D

[Bradley]

Still running ME here :( about to make the plung I think to XP Pro. We have another computer with XP Home on it here, and I haven't restarted it in ummmmmmmmm forever because I don't need to! I restart my ME computer at least 5 times an hour or so... haha

[zeroseven]

Oh yuck! ME... yuck!

[megahertzman]

Oh my god, somebody up there said rebooting only once a month! Damn, I got to do that like 20 times a week in my Win98 OS!:eek:

[paulselhi]

i have just finished a complete overhaul of my pc removing win 98 and putting on win2k , then i login and see this post !!!

perviously i dual booted to 98 and w2k adv server simply beacuse i was happy with 98 and wasn't sure about program compatability, also my av wouldn't run on 2k. now i have upgraded my av and have checked all my progs out i have dumped 98 and gone totally w2k service pack 3

the performance improvement is staggering, but you have to remember that any time you do a clean install, even if it's the same o/s again, you will get a performance boost beacause the pc gets nice and clean, feels pampered and bounces around like a sping lamb (for a while)

saying that, w2k and xp run on the same architecture as nt whilst me and 98 run on the win 95 architecture which is a bit constrained

i have heard that 2kpro is a better bet then xp because xp is really bloated with microsoft add ons, i am not to sure as i don't have xp, but i would imagine if you cleaned a lot of junk out and tweaked it it would be as good if not better than 2k pro

[Laurey]

You do know what the "ME" stood for don't you? It was Microsofts Masochistic Experience.

ROFL.. that is dead on with my experiences! I really haven't had much probs w/XP though.. I reboot once or twice a week (right before I record a show.. or need to edit out commercials), but it's only for 'freshness'.. I have left it on for 6 weeks - no reboot.

You know, there IS a way to set back the settings to the way Windows 98/etc was

Yup.. but if I used those.. I'd still be viewing my screen as it was w/windows 3.1 <G> Gotta get used to the differences when it comes out.. or I may never do it.

[ciscokid]

As I sit here with three computer one on Linux one on Mac OS and one on W2Kpro two have not been rebooted in 4 months (and yes they are powered up and running) I bet you can't guess which hasn't been rebooted in 4 months.

[megahertzman]

the penguin and the apple.

[LegoArtist]

Originally posted by (jj)
Laurey,

You do know what the "ME" stood for don't you? It was Microsofts Masochistic Experience.

But then I've heard some say that XP stands for Xtremely Painful

I like those. Here's a few more for you:

Windows 98SucksEggs
Windows 3.1 (out of a possible 10 points)
Windows 2000 (cost, in US dollars, to upgrade 10 users)
Windows 95 (average number of bugs encountered during boot-up)

And just to poke fun at the Windows haters:
(wish I could)Be(an)OS
Mac OS X (11th time's gotta be the charm)
Unix (what could be funnier than sounding like "eunuchs"?)
FreeButStillDreck
Linux (almost like Unix; doesn't Mel Brooks have a joke about that?)

[byutj]

i just had to give ya'll my input! i love win98SE!!! it's the bomb! seriously. i refuse to upgrade my OS or my computer! 650 mHz PIII, 384 MB PC100 RAM, 27 GB HD, and the ORIGINAL GeForce graphics card. beat that. i reboot about once a day and my hard drive has started making noises, but i still won't upgrade.

Long Live WIN98!
brad

[Ddr]

I am using a machine that is a little older than yours (I know, but replacement is just going to have to wait a while). Its a PII 450 with lots of RAM and two HD. I thought one of the drives was making noise, too, but it was actually the fan. The bearings had dried up.

What I did was use a pair of tin snips, clip the shroud covering the fan at the back of my mid tower case enough so that I could "hinge" the shroud open to get access to the back of the fan unit. There was a sticker that covered the plastic cap that protected the end of the fan shaft from dust. I peeled the sticker back, popped the cap, and put a few drops of fishing reel oil on the shaft. VOILA!!! Quiet machine again. You can use any light machine oil. "3 in 1" is a popular brand. I smoothed the sharp cut edges of the metal fan shroud with a file, then bent it back to cover the fan blades.

And yes, I know, opening the case the way I did and peeling the sticker violates all kinds of warrantee clauses, but the machine is about to celebrate it's 4th birthday and warrantees are not an issue any more.

Dale

[byutj]

thanks dale, i'll do that. then i will stop scaring me at night when i'm trying to sleep :(

[(jj)]

Dale,

You know that a new fan for the power supply runs between $5 and $10... :) Saves having to "modify" the case and they aren't THAT hard to replace, ya just have to remember to unplug the power cord or you have a "shocking good time".

Brad... Maybe I'm just paranoid anymore, but I never leave a computer or monitor turned on when I go to bed or leave the house. I've seen too many computers and monitors that have went up in flames, even with all the "protection" circuits that they have in place. Remember, electronic equipment was designed by "man" and "man" does make mistakes.


Just my "For What It's Worth"

[Bradley]

haha funny thread. I think for Christmas I am going to give myself windows xp and save my self a million head aches.

PS: Sorry I haven't been around much. Things have been uncontrolably busy here lately. Luckly Thanksgiving holidays are very near!

[Croc Hunter]

98 SE was the best by far "user friendly' edition.
Xp Home ain't to bad, fast, still went back to 98 SE.
Xp Pro has a mind of it's own, again back to 98 SE.

Might be my 'ball and chain' but think I'll stick with 98 SE.

[rainbore]

As long as we're all trashing Win98 - and I'm perfectly willing to join they fray - I would also appreciate some help.

My wife's computer runs Win98 and the other day it stopped displaying her wallpaper graphic. Normally, my brute-force solution to all such problems (that is, either (a) simply re-boot, and/or (b) go into the Control Panel and restore all related defaults) quickly repairs any problems she has, but this time its not working. I go into the Display Control Panel, pull up the wallpaper tab, select her .bmp graphic from the list, click "Apply" and absolutely nothing happens. The only wallpaper I can get to appear are the .html types. Other graphic software still displays this file on her system without any problems, but I can't get it to appear as wallpaper at all. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

[(jj)]

Go into the "Display Properties" and select the "Web" tab then see if the "View my Active Desktop as a Web Page" is checked. If so, uncheck it.

One other area where this may cause this problem, is to open the Windows Explorer and go to "View" and see if the "As Web Page" is checked in the View menu.


Just my "For What It's Worth"

[rainbore]

Worked like a charm.


Thanks, jj!

[user00265]

XP works good on my pc, BUT I simply HATE every single time it crashes, It is a pain in the a#@ cus after that every time you turn it off explorer.exe hangs and when you turn it on it says Windows has recovered from a serious error (this happens no matter what you do) and I have the latest patches/updates.

I notably prefer W2k, but XP is OK.

Windows ME (Mileium Edition) = JOKE =>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
DO YOU KNOW WHY MICROSOFT INVENTED ME BEFORE W2K?

- GIVE UP?

THEY FIRST CREATED THE SCRATCH TO CREATE THE MASTERPIECE!



HAPPY DECEMBER 1ST!!
:D :p :cool: :eek: :rolleyes:


-E

[megahertzman]

Oh my god, how big and great this thread has become! What have I created!

Anyways, I went ahead and upgraded everything. Actually, I went out and bought a cool $2Gs worth Sony Vaio system. It's a 2.4GHz, 512 RAM, RX series machine with Windows XP Home Edition. I'm on it right now and it's super fassssst!

However, there are some things I don't like - like the total organization and structure. I mean, there's two hard drives! And you have a hard time finding things that you downloaded or saved, or simple folders like the Cookies folder or the My Downloaded Fiiles folder! Whew! I'm still on the mission.

Well, atleast it's better than that old Windows 98 machine.

First of all, out of a pile of questions I'm going to ask later on, how do I even get shortcuts in that thing that is opposite the system tray. It's supposed to quickly launch stuff. Like MSIE or to show the desktop or something. Nothing's even there!

Oh well, I think it's just a matter of time until I'm used to it. :D

Maybe I actually should've installed Linux!

[HalfaBee]

I've had XP pro running for weeks and never rebooted.

Ouch did I say a Windoze product actually ran for more than 7 days without rebooting.

SLAP my (_x_) and call me whatever you want! :)

XP must be close to the best thing MS has ever produced!

Off to play with my linux box now, just to keep it happy!

HalfaBee

[paulselhi]

i'm not to familiar with WXP i run Windows advanced server and i was thinking, with the 2 drives can you not consolidate them into a volume set or spanned volume, thus giving both drives the same drive letter ?

[HalfaBee]

I haven't heard of that being done -- its not UNIX you know. :)

HalfaBee

[megahertzman]

I have no idea about making both hard drives into one.

But I think the reason for two drives (C & D) is to process two or more user accounts at the same time (when both are logged on), I think.

But why do you want to do that?
For simplicity's sake, huh?

Well, if you find out how, please post back! Because I'd do the same thing if I knew how. :D :) :D

[paulselhi]

and for that matter windows nt allows you to do this, you can create spanned volumes, volume sets, software raid, you can also mount virtual drives to folders (so you would mount a new partition to say Y:/this is a new partition) in effect you are redirecting to the partition all read and wriye requests to that folder so any requests you send to y:/this is a new partition wil be routed to the new partition even thought the real drive y is on a different partition

advantage ? you can't run out of drive letters, and you can effectively enlarge a volume on a disk for example if drive y is running short of space you add a new disk, create a volume on that disk then map the new volume to an empty folder on drive y, drive y now effectively becomes larger by the size of the new volume

the new volume could also be a stripe set with parity or a mirror set (in other words you could map a RAID volume to the folder on the y drive even though the y drive itself may not be fault tolerant)

volumes as alternatives to partitions:

a partition is confined to a single drive however you can create a simple spanned volume or stripped volume set across several disks and they share the same drive letter, normal volume sets across several disks will not give any performance gain though you do have the advantage of a single drive letter

you can get a performance gain if you use a stipped set across 2 or more disks (without parity) RAID 0,data is distributed across the disk set and the read and write time will be improved because you can access both disks at the same time

[paulselhi]

are not for dual processing of accounts they are simply to either give you more space or for fault tolerance if you mirror the 2 drives

[megahertzman]

Woooooooowwwwwwwwww.

Never knew that.

[megahertzman]

I don't get it.....

[paulselhi]

if you mirror the 2 drives you are effectively dupilcating your data on both drives, if one drive fails then the other is there as a hot standby backup however you effectively are only using one drives worth of sapce, the other is an exact mirror copy

spreading a voulme across 2 or more drives means that you fill up both drives with data but assign them the same virtual drive letter e.g drive d: now a folder on one drive could be d:\drive 1 folder and a folder on another drive could be d:\drive 2 folder

if you stripe the data then you write data across both drives in sequence and you use a single drive letter, so a file write is distributed across all the drives, this means read and write will be faster because you have 2 drive heads working at the same time

a strip set with parity is similar however some of the drive space is taken up with error correction ( data rebuilding) code so you lose some space but if one drive fails the others can recreate the data from the other drives ( you need at least 3 drives for this)

a mounted volume is simply an area of drive space that you assign to a folder name rather than an actual drive letter, this way you can bypass the 26 letter drive limit, you can also use this to enlarge a volume that you would otherwise be unable to do (on a basic disk, though W2K now has dynamic disks)and as mentioned earlier you can use this to create a fault tolerant area on an otherwise non fault tolerant volume

[megahertzman]

Oooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Man, is all this really neccessary?

Okay, I have Windows XP Home, and I have 7.58 GBs left on my C drive (the place where I store everything and where everything is stored by default) and 58.5 GBs left on my D drive. When I bought the computer a couple days ago, it said "80.0 GBs!"

So I assumed that that's way enough space for me.

But, if my C drive ran out of space, and the D drive is used as some sort of backup, does this not mean I can start using my D drive for personal data?

[ciscokid]

Yes you can use the D drive for data. When you said you have two drives what you have is two partions on one physical drive.

Is that correct?:confused:

[megahertzman]

Yes, that's what I meant.

[paulselhi]

thought you had a super dooper buy with twin drives !!!

[megahertzman]

That's what I thought.... :(

So you're saying I'm not able to used the D?

[paulselhi]

see my post on definitions, if you have 2 partitions c and d it is likely that c is your operating system and d is for your data, try to keep c clear of data in case you need to reinstall the o/s this will make life much simpler. c will fragment much less if you keep all your data and programs on d and save c for the o/s and any additions it needs like service packs and critical updates. You may consider moving the page file to d, if you are not sure about this then leave it alone otherwise do ask and we can advise you. the pagefile benefits from being on a seperate partition to the operating system

in short keeep c for the o/s d for programs and data

defrag both regularly

[megahertzman]

Sorry to reply so late. Just completed my finals.

Thanks, Paul, I read your 'Definitions' post. It was confusing and had an angle to computers I've never explored. But I think I got the basic idea.

See now, I have ALL my stuff on the C drive already after three, four weeks of owning my computer. There is 16 GBs in the C, with 7 of them free. This was default for the computer I guess without my actions. Everything on my XP is on C, like the programs, files, data, cookies, the Documents and Settings folder, accounts information. I just checked and noticed that there is a couple of empty folders on my D drive. And that's it!

Concluding.... So you're saying it would be good if I transfer ALL the stuff I see under C to D for the reason that if my computer gets a serious virus attack or corruption, and I'm going to have to going to reboot my computer to the state as when I first bought it, that all the data will STILL be saved even after the rebooting because I put the data in D?

If that's the right way, I'll do it, and thus leave C alone, which will mean I don't get to use the 16 extra GBs!

...And what is this 'defrag' thing anyways. People say, but I don't do.
I have never 'defraged' a computer once in my life. Not with my 98 SE, not with my new XP.
What is it and do I have to do it?

Thanks.

Happy New Year.

[Jade Dragon]

Defrag

When a system writes and erases data on your srive it creates little pockets of "space" bits & pieces scattered all over. what defrag does is "refile" the space to the end of your data and block out any bad sectors.

When to do this varies on the person. If you install and uninstall programs/ save & del items alot definitely do this once a month. If you write & write & write then once every two three months you clean up all the junk then after your done defrag.

remember that the programs you are running also write & delete on the harddrive as part of it's processing. (ms products are good for this)

you may notice a performance inscrease by doing this every so often.


HOW? you can usually find defrag in the system folder. "start" "accessories" "system tools" or simular depending on the system.

Shut off all running programs including your screensaver. hit start and go fix a sandwich, this will take a while.

JD

[Corky]

Hello to everyone out there. I am new to the forum, and just read this thread and was wondering if anybody had any issues with XP networking with 98's on a LAN?

A few months ago I bought an XP for a new CAD server and couldn't get the thing to talk to the rest of LAN. Got so frustrated that I returned the machine & swore I'd never go beyond 98. Now during that period I checked with MS & was told they only support 2 generation back. I'm at the point that computers need to be replaced, but can't do all at once. Kind of a catch 22.

Thanks for listening?

Corky

[Laurey]

I've had no problem w/that.. but the XP box is the primary...

[paulselhi]

what protocol(s) were you using on the LAN ? did the xp and 98 share the same protocol ( or a common protocol) ?

if you used ip did you have the same network address, if not did you have a correctly configured router ?

were you using a domain or a workgroup, if a domain were all the machines as well as users members, if a workgroup were all the machines members of the workgroup

did you check the xp firewall, it may have needed configuring to talk to the 98 boxes

[paulselhi]

if you move the programs to drive d you will most likely have to reinsatll them, the data can and should be moved there (txt html etc) away from the o/s

basically if you get to reinstall make the c drive purely for the o/s with space to spare for enhancements, it will need less defraging. if poss put the pagefile (swap file) on it's own partition and / or set it so that it's min and max values are the same so it builds itself fully on boot and will not fragment ( set it to 1 1/2 you ram - this is genorous and will handle most scenarios)

start defrag regularly, it will tell you ( at least on w2k) whether it thinks you should do a full defrag or not

[megahertzman]

Okay, now I know how to do it. But will this put my data into danger? It won't delete anything, would it?

[Jade Dragon]

I've heard of computers going down on a defrag, but there was usually a bigger problem behind it. Defrag has been around since the dinasaur days of computers it is fairly safe.

If you do have things that are really important you should have a back up anyway.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On another note I have winXP hooked up with a win98 computer with no problems I got it hooked through an internet router that has lan capabilities for a small network. With XP you can just hook computer to computer using firewire, usb, or eithernet cable. Any of these will be ok to use, though the eithernet is the most reliable and fastest. XP comes with all the "tech" you need to do this type of small networking.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JD

[megahertzman]

The C:/ & the D:/ :

I don't get this part:
if poss put the pagefile (swap file) on it's own partition and / or set it so that it's min and max values are the same so it builds itself fully on boot and will not fragment

What's a pagefile?

---

Now, I'm about to move the My Music, unzipped, Adobe Albums, java (the JVM), sonysys and other folders from C to D.

But how am I going to be able to easily remove the Program Files folder? There are like GBs and GBs worth of programs and files in there.

And, should I also transport the WINDOWS and Documents and Settings folder to my D:/ drive. It doesn't seem like a safe thing.

Also, how about these two configuration files that are left:
SiSSetup1 & SiSUnist.

Thanks.

[megahertzman]

I have XP hooked up with 98 too! I'm in the exact situation as you Jade! I use the Ethernet cable and a Linksys router with LAN capabilities as well. I'm soon to hook up about 10 computers!

[Jade Dragon]

OH another tidbit on the Lan. You must have windows XP as primary. It will also ask you to install protocols for the other computers as needed if you have a passive network using the XP as a "server". Kinda bossy that way. If you are going beyond two or three other computers, get a "switch" router rather than a hub. You can then configure the router with static or dynamic IPs for each computer to use. This creates your own intranet. To share the resources of each computer you will have to go through the network and "map" the other computers harddrive. Once this is done you can execute programs from anywhere on the network as long as each computer is given "permission" to "share".

If you want anyone in your network to connect to the internet then purchase the router with internet capabilities & firewall. This will allow the bandwidth of the internet connection to be prioritized over each active connection.

Cable/dsl routers are about $75.00 and up depending on how many computer you want connected. I recommend Linksys.

If you go the wireless connection make sure you designate IPs for your network and disallow dynamic IPs so your bandwidth won't be pirated, and your network remains secure.

;)

[Corky]

The LAN that I have is based on the coaxial cable.The system was built as needed over 10 years ago. I know that is an out dated network type, but at the time it worked fine. I still need the cable as the computers from one building to another is over 200 ft. away.
Tha fact that I'm using BN cable have an effect on the communication? All of the computers were set up on the same workgroup, and all with the same protocol. No IP used, no router used, and only one with internet connection.
I am investigating rebuilding the system to use ethernet, but am still on a learing curve. The problem is the 200 ft run to the machine shop from the office building.

Thanks
Corky

[ciscokid]

Before moving any of the program files STOP! Move the data files mp3's word files etc. Do not move the program files as the programs will look to the old drive where they were installed for other files they use.

It is ok to move your data files.

If you want your program files on D: then you need to uninstall them and the reinstall and tell them to use D: when you reinstall.

I use to try and keep my programs and data on a seperate drive but windows keeeps defaulting so much that I now use my D: only for my data files . Makes it easier to back up to CD also.

Mark

[Jade Dragon]

pagefile is what windows uses as extra processing space. you can have all the RAM your computer can handle and it still requires this file. by putting it on its own partition it creates sort of a "ram drive". the computer does not have to fight processes by thinking its all on its own. Just speeds things up a bit.

Personally I'd just like to get my hands on a system with a real ram drive to use. Graphic rendering would go sooo much faster.


any who. For normal computing seperating out the pagefile really isn't needed.

~~~~~~~

Corky, depending on where you live/work the best thing to do is get some electrical conduit and bury it in the ground between buildings. Then you can run your network/phones/cable or whatnot and not have to worry about the "future" technology changing. (I work for a construction firm, we do this all the time). Just find out your local code, some require a certain "depth" to bury it, not to mention permits.

~~~~~~~~~~~

[Jade Dragon]

Moving files/programs

There is a program called "Uninstaller" which can move the programs from drive to drive. I have done this before with much success. You can also see if you can find Nortons "Ghost" or simular program to copy your drive to disk or another drive.

By moving programs by hand will cause them to "break" as the inner workings rely on shared files.

If you wish to uninstall them from the drive than I would definitely recommend an uninstaller program.

Lets say you install a program and it plugs in five "fingers", then you uninstall that program using either their uninstaller or windows uninstaller. Either case your usually remove only three or four of the "fingures". Thus leaving usless trash on your drive.

[megahertzman]

Thanks. So now, should I move the WINDOWS and Documents and Settings folder as well?

[Jade Dragon]

No windows should be on the C drive You can move any file as long as it's not a program file from the Docs & Settings.

You can move My Documents, My Music and My Pictures to another drive, but the rest is pretty much settings for windows.

[ciscokid]

If you move the my document folder to D: be prepared for windows to recreate it on your C: drive depending on your version of windows.

It has done this on my W2K everytime I copied it to my D: and then deleted off my C: drive

This is one of the reasons I heate Windows all versions.

[megahertzman]

Oh, boy!

Okay, I have these folders in my account:
C:\Documents and Settings\megahertzman

.java
.javaws
.jpi_cache
Cookies
Desktop
Favorites
My Documents
Start Menu
UserData
WINDOWS

Now, which ones do I move do D drive and which ones do I keep in C drive?
This is really giving me a headache. If I move like the Desktop folder, how will the actuall desktop know that I moved it? If I move that Favorites, how will the browser know? The browser just might create another Favorites folder in the C. And for Start Menu, etc.?

Also, see, the My Documents folder, to my understanding, is like a private folder where only the account megahertzman can access because it is his files and in his account. If I put it in D, everyone will have access to it.

Windows is really getting on my nerves.

I appreciate the help to whomever replies.

If you forgot, I'm in XP Home.

[paulselhi]

first are you running this on a work network ? if so see your sys administartor before you make any changes

to move the my documents simply right click on it and choose properties, then choose move, you can also set security on this folder from here, it should be set for you, the admin and probably the sysytem. I would leave system alone, if you remove admin then they can always put themselves back ( by taking ownership and adjusting the rights)

you can also set your default home directory , try control panel users- advanced tab then advanced button, choose the user and adjust the profile

also within word, excell etc you can change your default document paths from options, again please check all this with your system administrator

a lot of the security aspect depends on what file system you are running, for the most security you should be on NTFS not FAT

[satis]

...anyway, first to the cable/ethernet guy. 200 feet? That's 200 feet of actual cable length, right? That's fine. Cat5 is rated (by standard) to work up to 150meters (somewhere around 450 feet). So 200 feet is no big deal. If you're really worried about it, go with cat5 STP (shielded twisted pair) rather than UTP (unshielded twisted pair). This will help limit RFI (radio frequency interference), especially if you need to run it near any kind of electrical equipment. Sorry if I'm telling you stuff you already know. :)

Going ethernet is actually a very good idea. For one, you can immediately run at 100Mb/sec, which I'm sure blows your current cable system out of the water. Cat5 cable is cheap in comparison to cable, and easier to replace and splice if you have to (splicing BAD). It's also more flexible, though you should avoid putting any strain on the cable (make curves gradual) or you risk pulling the twist out internally, which in turn will cause signal attenuation. Also, 10/100nics are CHEAP.... I've seen some for as cheap as $8, though the ones I use are $15 each. On top of that, I believe that gigabit ethernet (1000baseT) will run across cat5, so you could boost your transfer rate 10 times more just by doing some hardware upgrades and not worrying about the infrastructure (not 100% on this, but I know you can run 100mb on cat3, so why not 1000 on cat5?).

Anyway, I dig this stuff if you can't tell. :) On my way to a Cisco cert (slowly, slowly, but on my way regardless).

[satis]

for the guy with XP, personally I wouldn't go through all the work of moving those things. Just, from now on, install all your programs on d:. Save all your documents to d:. You don't HAVE to save your documents in "my documents"...in fact, I totally ignore "my documents" and do my own thing.

Additionally, you were talking about defrag and various other performance stuff. If you're interested, I actually have an extensive XP tweak guide on my website.

http:\\clankiller.com\tech\WinXP (clankiller.com\tech\WinXP)

[ciscokid]

For the LAN GUY you may already know this.

From my Cisco Classes.
Always figure your Cat 5 runs at 100 meters this leaves you a little play room. Also if the run between devices is over add in a powered hub this works as a repeater.

As for shielded cable it is much harder to work with and you must use shielded connectors or you can cause more problems. It also cost more.

As for running CAT5 between buildiings Cisco will tell you this is a no no because of voltage potential between the electral ground in each building. This can lead to equipment failure and or electrical shock. The recomended course is to use a non-conductive source such as fiber. (which is more costly but safer) I would look into wireless with security in mind.

Mark

[Corky]

for the info & update. We are terrible busy at the moment and will be for some time. I may come back and pick your brain a little for more info, when we closer to redoing the system.

Thanks again
Corky

[satis]

yep, you're right on all counts. Kinda spaced the voltage potential thing, but in my experience alot of the stuff they teach in the Cisco classes isn't quite right... not sure about the voltage thing between buildings (no experience) but there were portions talking about RFI and voltage problems (and wiring stuff) that they made sound really bad but aren't a problem in the real world. Most of that stuff, IMO, is theory. Such as running 100baseT on cat3, that's technically not possible, but totally possible in the real world. You can also run cat5 alot long than 150 meters, as long as there's no major magnetic sources floating around.

Still, indeed, you're supposed to use single mode fiber between buildings, but the cost is astronomical. Wireless is a possibility, but 802.11b is inherently insecure. Perhaps another (more secure) option will present itself...I'm not too well versed in wireless stuff. I prefer wired, most definetely.

Far as repeaters, you can use a hub to repeat, but make sure you get a quality one. I tried to connect two hubs together (I forget what that's called, stupid brain) and I couldn't get it to work, though both hubs worked, the connections were right, etc etc. I narrowed it down to signal loss at the hubs (probably the ethernet connections), so if you try to repeat with a low quality hub, you may actually cause the problem you're trying to avoid. Just some friendly advice. :)

anyway, I've actually run cat5 from my house to my neighbor's house. Only one strand of UTP cat5, granted, but it seems to be ok...certainly no fried equipment at either end. Still, our houses are separated by maybe 20 feet, so the difference in potential may not mean anything for us, whereas it would in your situation. Hmmmm....since he's running cable, wouldn't that have the same potential problem (of potential). hehe...I like that.

[ciscokid]

But what he is running is coax and it has the outer shield that is suppose to be grounded to earth.

The way you did it between neighbors would work because of the short distance. As for 200 feet I would worry as I have a friend that had to do this between buildings at his job and they replace at least one NIC card every couple of months due to voltage during a thunderstrom and that is with no close lighting hits.

Cisco has a very good reason for saying what they do. An example your a contractor and if you ran the Cat5 between the buildings and there is a voltage potental bwetween the grounds. Some poor user sat down where there is a freshly mopped floor and reach over to put in a CD into the computer and received a shock. Now guess who is going to catch a lawsuit for creating and unsafe work place.

I am a firm believer in SAFETY FIRST from my HAM radio days to the 20 years of nursing as an RN in Emergency Rooms . I have seen enough cases of not following the safety rules to be a believer.

Remember the rules

Murphy's law is the first law of computers and anything else.

Any shortcut for cost savings will cost you more in the long run.

[satis]

true true....safety is always a concern. However, there's alot of stuff in Cisco that's easily ignorable.

for instance, computer to wall socket, 3 meters, horizontal run, 90 meters (I believe), run from horizontal to patch panel or WAN connection, 6 meters. They try to make it appear as if that's set in stone, when in reality it makes not a lick of difference. (it's actually up to for each, but regardless). I mean, there's nothing wrong with having a 15 meter run to your patch panel, so long as the total length of the segment totals less than 100 meters or whatever. :) anyway...

far as potential...you're right. You should be careful, don't wanna blow stuff up if you can help it. Now, I didn't say this (wink) but I work for a cable ISP. As such, we run cable miles and miles from our nodes to the customer's home. Due to varying potentials between the node and the customer's residence, we are unable to ground the wire on both ends...to do that, we'd have to run a ground wire all the way back to our node, which is totally cost ineffective, so we don't do it. The result: if there's active thunderstorm, we have a rash of burned out cable modems, network cards, and occasionally motherboards. :) BTW, it is necessary to ground coax as well.... the outer shield is akin to the shielding in STP. It's still supposed to be grounded at both ends.

Which still doesn't help our friend. :) Hell, if you want, you could leave the current coax system in place for talking between the buildings. How much cross-building traffic are you expecting? If the coax is enough to handle it, you could put some switches/routers in each building and build two separate, ethernet based 100Mb networks connected by (slower) coax. Might be easier that way.

wooo...armchair sysadmins ho! :)

[Jade Dragon]

You do realize that this should be two threads lol

in one of my last posts I mentioned electrical conduit. Some may not quite understand what is meant by this.

In order to protect the wiring between building have either a PVC or galvanized electrical conduit (pipe) running between and into the buildings. Having a dimention of 1" to 2" pipe will enable you to have the possibility of more than one cable/wire going through it. This also protects from weather damage and rodents.

No system is ever going to be 100% fool proof from lightning or "mother nature".

[ciscokid]

Two threads together = a knot :D

Much of the Cisco is guidelines. But ask network people how many times they have been bit in the butt because they made the run a little to long and only allowed for 2.5 meters instead of the 3 and the boss moves his desk past the 3 meters.

as for the cable between buildings If I had to do it I would not run it computer to computer but hub to hub. They are cheap and replaced easy. As for your hub to hub not working did you use a crossover cable? That is what you need for those cheap hubs.

I assume since you are in Dallas you work for the unnamed cable company over there.

Jade, Putting the cable in a pipe will not protect it from electrical potential only from rain, water, etc.

[Corky]

for their input.
That knot thing is like giving a newbie a salior's knot & he turns it into a Granny's hitch.:)

Maybe this whole thing should go to another thread!!! Didn't want to get flamed for crossthreading!!
Got many questions, as we are going to rebuid the system in the near future, and want to do it rite---err right.

Corky

[satis]

...we're multithreading! Hyperthreading! It's all good! wooo!

heheh...anyway. I'm a big proponent for putting wall jacks everywhere. Leave the cables in the walls alone...just jack in a long patch cable if need be. But that's neither here nor there.

For the building-to-building network, hubs would work. It really depends on the size of the network you're building, though. If we're talking alot of computers, a switch/router would probably be a better choice for segmentation reasons. In fact, personally, I would always go with switches. The cost difference really isn't all that great anymore, and the performance difference is phenomenal.

hehe...nice to see other networking guys around. I'm used to being the only one that knows the difference between a hub and a computer nowadays. :P In fact, I may be tempted to pick your brain when I hit my next Cisco class. :)

[(jj)]

Hey guys (& gals)

I think this thread has wandered way off course and is getting to where it's not really helping anyone.

So, unless there is dissention amongst the ranks, I will close this one.

You are welcome to start new threads about your networking discussions and/or Windows XP file placement. But let's try to keep each thread "on topic" so that they are as helpful to everyone as possible.