Strange computer problem.

[HalfaBee]

My PC was continually locking up at random :(.

I of course blamed Windoze for thes crashes the dreaded blue box came up with a Fatal Exception.

I put up with this for quite a while untill spring came along and we started to have a heat wave the problem occured much more reguarly.
I ripped off the cover and had a look around. The CPU fan was still running so thats not the problem.
Then I stuck my finger on a big gold heatsink next to the CPU. It was quite HOT. So I thought heat may be the problem and stuck a 4" fan infront of the heatsink.

Guess what -- no more crashes

I just thought this might help other frustrated PC users with badly designed mother boards.

HalfaBee

[Laurey]

had a similar problem in hubby's computer after installing a WD 120 Gig hdd.. crashed WAY too often (and it was D:, not primary).

Went to have a looksee .. and I 'bout got a suntan from the heat that bugger was putting out..

added another case fan.. and though it's a bit loud.. it's near icy in there.. now he only crashes occassionally (Win98.. what'cha expect???<G>)

Had no idea large WD hdd's ran so hot though..

[(jj)]

All of the newer (1 Ghz and up) computers that I put together have at least 2 extra case fans. One at the back of the case below the power supply and one in the front.

I use motherboards that have fans on the chipset chips and the video cards have fans for their chipsets.

When using a large hard drive, I like to put those into a hard drive cooler frame. This gives them their own small (and quiet) cooling fans.

Excess heat is the biggest cause of problems of most system crashes and something a person really has to be aware of. I've seen computers stuffed into small desks and places where there was no hope for moving air. Needless to say, they didn't work too well.

[RocketJeff]

They make fans that fit into expansion slots, with or without harddrives.

Here's one example - Icy Dock (http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=ICY-DOCK)

[Ddr]

Anyone care to comment on these products that are available from the larger PC parts dealers? (www.harddrive.com is one)

-Thermalite Active Memory cooling kits for SDRAM

-VGA Card chip coolers

-Water cooling kits for PC cases.

Thanks for the input.

Dale

[(jj)]

-Thermalite Active Memory cooling kits for SDRAM
Good, especially if your memory slots are in a position where they do not get ample air supply to cool them.

-VGA Card chip coolers
A must for the new high end video cards, but most of those already come with fans attached. If the card is in a crowded or small case, adding a fan could extend it's life.

-Water cooling kits for PC cases.
Theroetically, good... but I guess I'm a bit of a skeptic or paranoid. I just can not see mixing water with electronics. With my luck it would spring a leak and I'd have an expensive fireworks display.

Overall, if a person makes sure that the system has good airflow and keeps all of the dust bunnies out of the case and fan screens (power supply), then under normal conditions the system should run cool enough.

If a person feels secure enough to open their case, they should make sure that all of the flat drive cables are arranged so they are not impeding the air flow. Or replace them with the new round drive cables that are available these days.


Just my "For What It's Worth"

[Ddr]

I appreciate the input, Jack.

I would worry about radiator leaks, too


Dale

[paulselhi]

although it is likely to increse the chances of dust etc getting in to a pc if you are having a problem with over heating i find it helps to open the case and leve it slightly off so there is more air flow into the pc, obviously this is far from perfect as you have the aforesaid dust problem amongst others but it is a quick fix untill you can apply the fixes detailed above

[HalfaBee]

Dohh

The problem happenned again today.

The damm case is wide open big fan blowing the chipset cold as a snag well after the Bar B Q is over.

I now know why I hate Windows regardless of the f'ing trade mark.

I have had a Win95 app running for at least 3 years without rebooting on one job, and I realise its not windows its the software people write.

I put my problems down to EI6 and Outlook (some damm version) I think its time to try something else.

HalfaBee the reckless trademark slanderer!

[paulselhi]

you need to really check out your configuration

1. defrag

2. clean out all temp files (from everywhere, they sneak in to all sorts of places)

3. run an antivirus and trojan scan ( don't just rely on one product use 2 some see things others don't)

5. apply all the latest servisce packs and updates

6. consider a fresh install, this works wonders, so may programs you install mess around with your settings and dlls a clean install will get things back up to scratch, then put in the service packs and hot fixes

[(jj)]

Originally posted by paulselhi
although it is likely to increse the chances of dust etc getting in to a pc if you are having a problem with over heating i find it helps to open the case and leve it slightly off so there is more air flow into the pc, obviously this is far from perfect as you have the aforesaid dust problem amongst others but it is a quick fix untill you can apply the fixes detailed above

One problem with suggesting this Paul, too many people think that "If a little is good, then more is better" and may pull the case cover off completely.

Cases are designed so as to MAKE the air flow from front to back, thus forcing air over the entire surface of the mother board. Without the cover in place the exhaust fans simply pull air from the closest "outside" point and none of the air is circulating over the components to cool them.

I've heard some "tech support" people tell their clients to remove one or more of the back planes to increase air flow. But this too is not a great idea, as it allows the exhaust fan(s) to pull air from the back and right back out, without ever cooling anything.

Granted, what you suggest (pull the cover back SLIGHTLY) can give more air intake up front (where it counts). But a person has to be careful not to open it too much.

Then there is the factor of "clutz-itis". With the case part way open, there is a chance of getting liquid splashed into it and that would be much worse than an over heating problem.


Just my "For What It's Worth"

[(jj)]

Halfabee,

If you can reboot your system when it locks up like this and everything seems to be running "normally" again. Then you should try the things that Paul has suggested above.

Because if your system will reboot and act normal (as normal as Winblow$ can) then it just about has to be mostly an OS/software problem.


Just my "For What It's Worth"

[paulselhi]

i stand corrected by (the ever cautious ) jj ;)

also what o/s are u running ? if it'e w98 have u thought about uping to w2k ?

[HalfaBee]

Thanks for the comments.

As for airflow, there are no vents at the front so no air is flowing front to back. I think with it open it is a lot cooler than it was.
I doubt if I will throw my cup of tea at the computer (even if it locks up again )

I upgraded my home computer to XP pro and find it a lot better.
I am a bit worried about doing my work one because of an expensive peice of software that drives my plotter.

Many programs have problems with XP.

I will defrag tonight after deleteing all the temp files.

It might be time to install Norton 2002 :)

Thanks again

HalfaBee

[Ddr]

Hi Halfabee

If you can stand another 2 cents worth (appologies to Jack), I would caution you about using too many of the components found in Norton Utilities Suite.

It is the opinion of some, and born out partially in my own experience, that Norton is just too invasive into the Windows system. Some call it a virus. It definitely qualifies as "bloatware" if you use all of the components in the suite. I advise people to stay away from everything except the parts needed to run Antivirus and WinDoctor. If you want, the RegEdit utility is small and easy to use, too. But stay away from crashguard and everything else (in my humble opinion).

Should you ever try to remove Norton from your computer, you will understand why some call it a virus. It needs to be manually cleaned from the Registry so you can clean boot after deleting it.

Good luck with all of this.

Dale

[paulselhi]

This is good (http://www.vtoy.fi/jv16/shtml/regcleaner.shtml)

and free but as usual don't mess to much with the registry unless you know what your doing, and always back it up first, though saying that this program is very user friendly and i find it good at cleaning out registry entries after i have uninsatlled a program

[(jj)]

I've been a long time user of Peter Norton's products, that is until I started using Norton under Win 95 and up. Seems that every upgrade version has gotten more and more invasive and bloated, and dang near impossible to get rid of.

I now only use the Norton Disk Docter, Speed Disk (I hate MS's Defrag) and Win Doctor. I've even stopped using Norton's Anti Virus because of it's bloat and resource hogging.

In my opinion (and yes I know what's said about that) the only thing worse than Norton's System Works is McAfee's Nuts & Bolts and AntiVirus.

If anyone knows of a good disk optimizer that works as well as Speed Disk or at least better than Defrag, I'd be interested in hearing about it.


Just my "For What It's Worth"

[ciscokid]

Had simular problems with my son's computer. Thought it was a heat problem but it turned out to be a power supply problem. Seems the power supply was not big enought to handle to load and every so oftem the computer would lock up or crash. Put in a bigger power supply and all is well.

But I learned a few thing in the process of correcting the problem.

Adding more fans does not always mean you are cooling the hot spots. you have to move air in and out of the case. Sounds stupid but how many times we hear of people adding bigger CPU fans or Bios Fans etc when all they are doing is moving the hot air around in the case. You have to put outside the case air in to cool the components. You need to keep a postive air pressure in the case. If you pull air throgh the case you are creating a negative pressure. Your power supply fan will not work as well and will cause premature failure of the power supply and maybe other parts.

If you build you on computers or have to replace a power supply get one that has a higher rating than you think you need. If you need a 300w get a 350w this gives you a little play room and when the power company gives you a brown out the computer is better able to handle it.

That is my half cents worth

[RocketJeff]

Here's a link to Tom's Hardware Guide's Comparison of 21 Power Supplies (http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/02q4/021021/index.html).

Basically, they found that a lot of power supplies aren't capable of meeting the manufacturers claims.

With an off-the-shelf machine from national manufacturers (Dell, HP, etc) this is probably not much of a problem (unless you're adding more components to the system). If you put together your own machine (or add components to existing machines), this is something to take into consideration.