Hidden(?) Referral Program Cookies

[Jeff321]

[Edit: PowWeb has corrected the cookie problem. See my post below and PowWeb's announcment about the referral URL change (http://forum.powweb.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13263#newpost).]

Before I begin with my question, I must thank PowWeb for implementing this referral program. It will be very helpful.

Ok, first let's see if I have this straight. Somebody clicks a link to your referral URL ( http://www.powweb.com/powweb-bin/referer.cgi?account_id=#### ) and PowWeb is supposed to create a cookie which will store that account ID so you get referral credit when somebody signs up for PowWeb. Being a curious person, I wanted to take a look at that cookie to see what it contained. Here's what I did...

I went to my referral URL in Internet Explorer, then checked the cache directories: "C:\Documents and Settings\user\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files" and "C:\Documents and Settings\user\Cookies" for new cookies. The only ones I saw were for the PowWeb forum. I then ran a file search on all of "C:\Documents and Settings\" for any files containing "powweb" or my account ID--again, the only things that turned up were for forum.powweb.com, nothing that appeared to have anything to do with the referral program.

Ok, next I tried something simpler... I opened up Mozilla, went to my referral URL, and used the built-in Cookie Manager, only to find a www.powweb.com cookie that expires "at end of session" and contains a "session_id".

Then I tried Netscape. The only cookie I found there was the Session ID one as I found in Mozilla, but this one had a different value for "session_id", further suggesting that it no referral information is stored here.

I then thought that maybe I can't just type in the URL to the address bar on the browser, maybe it has to be a link from my website? I edited the link on the bottom of my homepage to the referral URL (it's still there if you'd like to check) and tried clicking that. I could still find no referral cookies.

So, now I'm wondering, "What did I overlook?", and, in the back of my mind, "Does this thing really work?" If I missed something, or if you have any insight into this, please reply here.

Thanks!

[(jj)]

About the only way that I can see that this works, is if it sets a server side cookie (on Powweb's system) and not on your computer.

Otherwise, if a person followed your link from one computer and then signed up using a different computer, you would get no credit.


Just my "For What It's Worth"

[Jeff321]

I thought of that, but I don't think it makes any sense.

If you visit the referral URL and PowWeb only sets a server-side cookie, how will they know it's still that same person who clicked the link after you exit your browser and go back to www.powweb.com later? (Assuming you don't take the referral link the second time.)

Otherwise, if a person followed your link from one computer and then signed up using a different computer, you would get no credit.

If a person follows your link on one computer and then signs up on a different computer (and doesn't follow the referral link the second time), how would the PowWeb server with the cookie know it was the same person at all?

I thought the best way to do it would be when the user clicks the referral link, PowWeb's script makes a cookie with the referral number on that person's computer. Then, even if they come back to powweb.com later and sign up, the order form can read the cookie off their computer and credit the proper account.


I really don't see how it can be completly server-side and still work after the user quits the browser, unless it does it by IP address. Even then, however, if a dial-up user logs off and then back on, his IP will (probably) change. And anyway, logging IPs isn't how PowWeb said they did it--they said it uses cookies.

[grahm]

Jeff321 --
I ran the same tests on IE and Mozilla with the same results as you.

Using cookies, PowWeb would need to set them client-side if they were to persist for 30 days. It completely stumps me why they are set to only last the session.

But what I do have to offer is referral@powweb.com which they provided at the bottom of the Referral Program page.

:)

[Jeff321]

Thanks for the reply. I'll e-mail, but chances are an admin will stop by before then :)

[Jeff321]

Ok, I did some more tests using Mozilla (it has the best cookie managment). What I found out, was that if you go to a referral URL, you get a session cookie with a session_id from www.powweb.com. If you go directly to www.powweb.com, you get no cookies.

Because of this, I would guess that either this cookie does contain the account number, or it is linked to a database of session_id's and account numbers on a PowWeb server. Changing that session cookie to a longer-lasting one (like 30 days) would probably fix it.

Of course, this is just speculation and only PowWeb would know exactly how their system works. :)

[Jeff321]

If you've been to the Announcments board you will notice that PowWeb has made an update to the referral URL (http://forum.powweb.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13263).

Instead of
http://www.powweb.com/powweb-bin/referer.cgi?account_id=--account_id--

They now want us to use
http://signup.powweb.com/powweb-bin/referer.cgi?account_id=--account_id--

I figured this would be a fix to the cookie problem. I opened up Mozilla, went to my referral address, and sure enough they have corrected the problem. They have changed the session_id cookie (mentioned above) to expire one month from the creation date.

I wonder if the URL was part of the problem, but I suppose it doesn't really matter.

Now that we have a working referral program all is good :D

Thanks PowWeb!

[dispatcher]

So what does that do with any of the people that saw my previous link, and went there to sign up????


Bob
4driver.com

[Jeff321]

If somebody clicked your link before PowWeb made the changes today, you may not get credit. If they clicked the link, closed their browser, and signed up later, you would have gotten no credit. However, if they put in your website address on the order form, you would have been credited as usual.

[dispatcher]

So that means that if any of the several hundred people that saw the link in a newsletter that was just sent out, and want to use it, will all go to the wrong link!!!! Since I put in nothing about mentioning me (I shouldn't have had to!!!) I get screwed out of those commissions (very unlikely I could track them now, that is what the code was for!)

Hey it's only money, who would ever do this for a living!


Bob

[grahm]

I'm glad they fixed it and glad that Jeff321 found the bug.. Now I'll make loads and loads of dollars from my PowWeb hosting link!! :D

Hope the Admins don't mind that I made my own image.

dispatcher.. sorry for your loss. :(

[Jeff321]

Yes, I'm sorry Bob. There's not much you can do now unless you want to send another e-mail with the new address. :(



Originally posted by grahm
I'm glad they fixed it and glad that Jeff321 found the bug.. Now I'll make loads and loads of dollars from my PowWeb hosting link!! :D
Hope the Admins don't mind that I made my own image.


I'm glad I found that problem too... if nobody had noticed it there's no telling how long it would have gone before somebody realized it didn't work as intended. If it went unnoticed for some time there would be even more angry people like Bob, and that would not be a pretty sight at all.

As for making "loads of dollars" I doubt I'll be able to do that, but I'll definatly try :D

I don't think they'll mind that you made your own image, but I guess that depends what's on it :p

[dispatcher]

If it went unnoticed for some time there would be even more angry people like Bob, and that would not be a pretty sight at all.

:) :) Did I ever say I was angry ???

Now if I actualy ever expected to make any money with a website, stuff like that would probably annoy me, but, now who would ever think that!


Bob
4driver.com

[grahm]

Now I'll make loads and loads of dollars from my PowWeb hosting link!! I was kidding.. Hehee.. I make the occasional dollar through banner ads but not enough to retire on. ;)

[Jeff321]

Heh, yeah, I know... I'll be surprised if I make any at all :)


Did I ever say I was angry ???

No, but you certainly sounded angry in your other post, or at least annoyed.

I don't ever expect to make money off a website either--my site is nothing more than a hobby :)