View Full Version : Navigational nightmare
I'm honestly not sure where to begin with this. Perhaps it doesn't belong on this particular board, but it's worth a shot. :)
I have a large site. I've worked strictly in html since 99'. So of course everything is done in html and has a left hand navigation system. Well when I add a new subsection, it becomes a real pain in the patoot. My site is http://www.sophiaswisdom.com on the left hand nav. there are the main sections. Once in a while I need to change things. There are actually two things on there I want to change, but it's such a nightmare because I have to change over 100 pages. It gets a bit tedious after a while. What I'm looking for is a way to edit this all in a jiffy. Or as close to a jiffy as I'm going to be able to get. I was once told by someone that I should use ASP. I understand I'd have to put in .asp extensions on each file. This to me is actually okay if in the long run it makes things easier for me. However, this person has since disappeared and I'm really at a loss. So basically I'm looking for a way to make this whole changing of the navigation system much easier for me. I'm sure I'm really missing something easy here, but what do you expect huh? ;) Anything I know I've taught myself, and from html I don't know where to go. If anyone can offer some help I'd appreciate it. Even some excellent websites would be great. Lol, just be fore warned... I will likely have a lot of cheezy questions to ask.
Alleira
alphadesk
6-20-02, 05:56 PM
Hi Alleira,
Would you consider using something like this.Menu (http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex1/hvmenu/index.htm) . Once you get it set up then you only have to edit one file and it will be reflected on all pages.
The down side is that you still would have to edit your existing pages to remove your existing menu and add the new one. From then on you will just have to edit the one file.
It will work horizontal or vertical. You can have submenus or not, just depends on how you want it. You can change the colors an text and even make the top level a graphic like this.
http://www.alphadesk.net/start.htm
RSaucier
6-20-02, 06:13 PM
Alleira,
One of the sites I maintain has 218 pages. One of the best things I can suggest is the use of a server-side include.
Break your menu(s) out and maintain them there. Even if you have to break them out per section, you're still talking a LOT fewer edits! :)
There's also Alpha's suggestion of a JavaScript-based menuing system.
It depends on what functionality/look 'n feel you want.
Robert
Ok, my turn to put in my 2 bits worth (inflation, ya know).
You could do BOTH Alpha's and RSaucier's suggestions!
That is what I use, I have the DHTML menu that I load from within my header using SSI. You set up the menu once, and then load it with every page, sure makes life simpler.
The only problem that I've seen with the DHTML menu is if you have a lot of Web TV people that use your site. Web TV doesn't do DHTML or Java (well Web TV doesn't do much of anything).
Just my "For What It's Worth"
I had been told I could use javascript, but the problem is I really don't know much about javascript. Plus My computer isn't too much of a fan of it. True... It should be able to take it lol, but tell that to old sparky here. Actually I didn't know that was javascript until I read the replies after Alphadesk
RSaucier, how do you 'break your menus out'. I warned you all about my cheezy questions (I'm capable of learning. Please bear with me lol.) Do you have an example of this?
Another thought about the javascript is that I'd like to be able to keep the softness of the site. Is there a way to make it transparent so that my background and colors can show through it without it being a problem? If this is put in, who will be able to view it and who won't? (Obviously people without javascript turned on yeah.... heh.) And am I to understand that I will have to just change a little piece in the file to get the menu to reflect the change on all pages? I understand I'm going to have to edit all those pages to get the final happy navigation system in. So I'm prepared.
Next... DHTML? We get a few WebTv users, but there are so few of them likely I will not cater to them. With DHTML work easy for someone such as myself? I know before I moved that I had well over 100 pages. Now I think I'm getting to RSaucier's level of nearly 200 of my own. Plus I need to add about 30 more pages soon. I'm moving some things over again... So now more than ever I really have to get cracking on finding something easily editable. Likely this will end in my mind having it's own blue screen
Thanks for the suggestions!
Alleira
alphadesk
6-20-02, 07:54 PM
You won't be able to make the script that I showed tansparent. It wiuld have to have a color. You would edit the javascript text in notepad. Really not that hard to do if you know html. After you edit that on file like you want. You just add this to all the pages you want your menu to appear on.
<script type='text/javascript'>
function Go(){return}
</script>
<script type='text/javascript' src='menu_var.js'></script>
<script type='text/javascript' src='menu_com.js'></script>
And jj and RSaucier ideas will work also, they are couple of coding animals.
DHTML is nothing more than the marriage of CSS and Java Script.
If an old timer like myself can figure out how to set up a DHTML menu, then I believe anyone can. ;)
If you take a peek at my site, you will see the menu that I use is partly transparent. You can also change the color of the menu to suit what fits with your site.
You can also do as Rs suggests by breaking out your menus and using one text based menu that is not built into the individual pages. You would still use a similar menu as what you have now, but you would only have one menu that loads for every page. (using SSI) If you go to my site, and click on the Web TV link, those pages are using one text menu file that loads using SSI.
Just my "For What It's Worth"
RSaucier
6-20-02, 08:30 PM
Alleira,
The SSI method is pretty simple.
When you look at the code in your page, don't touch anything until you get to:<table width="125" cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 border=0>
<td valign=top align=left>
<ul>
Now, you cut out your menu code:<li><a href="index.html">Home</a>
<li><a href="forum.html">Forum</a>
...<snip>...
<li><a href="contact.html">Contact the Webmistress</a>
<li><a href="about.html">About the Webmistressess</a>
This menu code gets saved as a file named, oh, I don't know, let's be adventurous, "menu.inc.txt".
Where you snipped out the menu code, you've now got a <ul></ul> that needs to be filled. insert the following between the two tags:
<!--include virtual="/menu.inc.txt"-->
This will suck in the file "menu.inc.txt" -- users won't even know that it wasn't there to begin with.
Now, I've read in other places in the forum that your .html files don't need to be renamed .shtml files. They only need to have their permissions set to 755 in order for the server-side includes to be parsed.
The worst part of the exercise will be yanking the menu code out of all of your pages. The best part is that you can start the project by creating the menu file and just doing a page or 5 here and there. The page layout won't change and folks will never know the difference.
If you made it this far, you get a gold star! And not just ANY gold star...an EMBOSSED gold star! (I think I need to cut back on the coffee...)
Robert
Alright... I'm thinking about this. Here come the questions again...
With the javascript menu, can I make it any color I want? Would I be able to leave the background I have? Does the script have it's own file? I know these questions are likely very obvious, but I haven't dealt with anything other than what you find on my site. Yeah... I want to learn more and take over the world, but for now I'm looking for a way to get a nice system in. I'm not sure I really want those pop out menus. I guess really I'd like it to look the way I have it now. It was bad enough that my fellow Webmistress said to me "Those damn dog and ponies" about my CSS links :D
I'm deffinately looking to have one menu load for the pages. The places where I have it slightly different are on my review and article pages. Those I have it set up so you can click on a chosen topic and head to a main section for said topic. Likely I'm going to have to end up doing something with those pages eventually too... But I'll get to those when I get to those. It won't be nearly the task that this will be.
For SSI snippy nav bars, I would just be making a .txt file and dropping it in my folder? All the listed links would be dropped into a file and I wouldn't have to call it anything other than .txt? I know you called it menu.inc.txt I know that the .txt extension is there because it was saved as that, but eh... Lol, it's just easier to call it that I suppose. It will be okay with the menu.inc part right, or was this just an example name? I know that sounds totally bizarre. I'm just asking I guess if it could be menu.txt or do I need to put something in the middle such as menu.something.txt, does that make sense? Will I be able to use SSI on powweb?
Once again thank you for your help. I think I'm almost there. Lol, actually I want to play with all these different things and see what I can come up with. :)
Alleira
RSaucier
6-20-02, 09:34 PM
SSI on PowWeb > Yuppers!
File name > Whatever your heart desires (well, within reason...but ain't that the way those "whatever your heart desires" things go?)
Robert
Ah... I'm going to have to pull up a section and play with it to see how it works. Not tonight though lol. I've got to get up early in the morning and I don't have the time to play right now. It sounds easy enough. It doesn't matter that I have the .html file extensions? I can rename them if I need to because I'm going to need to pull them up anyway just to edit them. If I don't have to I'd rather not because so many people are familiar with the .html extension (yeah... trying to cut down on confusion.)
I think another plan of action is for me to absorb my options. I really like all the options given :)
Alleira
Alleira,
In my opinion (yeah, I know).. no longer than what your menu is now, I would suggest using the text/html menu and SSI as RS told you about.
The DHTML/Java menu like what I have is nice and yes you can set the colors and effects to your liking, you just have to edit the menu_array.js file. However, you have 2 more files that have to be uploaded and which are loaded each time someone visits your site and it does take a little more coding to make the little sucker do what you want it to.
If my old menu had not gotten so long, I'd probably still be using just that and not the java one. If (in the future) you find that you have a need for it, you can always update rather simply by replacing the code for the text menu with one for the java menu and adding in a couple extra lines of code in the body and still continue using the SSI.
And YES, you can use the same background as what you have now, no matter which way you decide to go. :)
What ever your choice is, don't be afraid to give us a yell if you find you need more help.
Just my "For What It's Worth"
Oh, and RSaucier, there is no such thing as "Too much COFFEE"
RSaucier
6-21-02, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by (jj)
Oh, and RSaucier, there is no such thing as "Too much COFFEE"
;) I know...I put that in just in case my wife were to cruise through here. She'd rather I give it up altogether...I told her I would if she'd upholster the walls in my office here at home... :D
Robert
BerksWebGuy
6-21-02, 10:31 AM
I am intimate with SSI (Server Sider Includes).
Using SSI, I through in the html/flash for the header and footer...so if I want to change...I just change one file and it changes the other 30+ pages.
Its simple and easy :)
Well here it is afternoon... I have just been testing things out and you know something? I've messed it up already. The menu isn't showing up. Being a relatively smart cookie, I know I'm missing something here. I get my traditional page with a big blank spot where my menu use to be.
I'm left to wonder here... What do I need to do with the coding in order to have SSI work? I did exactly as instructed. Lol, so if you put it in, that's likely just what I went with. Thus leaving me with an empty spot *grin*
I haven't given up yet...
Alleira
Okay.... hold on... Gimmee a second... I've got an idea... BRB!!! I'm off to see if I can kick that code into submission :D
Alleira
I'm back... My plan didn't work lol. I know I'm seriously missing out on something here. So I'm going to stick with my original posting for today. I'm missing something for SSI. :confused:
Alleira
BerksWebGuy
6-21-02, 01:34 PM
If your using SSI...
First you need a script to exec in the page.
Then call that script from the page.
Finally...make sure your pages are .shtml - not .html
Did you do all of these??
Hi Alleira,
Did you remember to put this code in where RS had told you to yesterday?
code: <!--include virtual="/menu.inc.txt" -->
Also, you should use the .shtml extension for your page (not for the menu) that contains the SSI command. At least until you have everything working and know for sure it is. Then if you want to you can try the Chmod 755 and using .html instead.
Just my "For What It's Worth"
When attempting to get it to view as .shtml it won't register as being a legitimate page. It even looks funny when I'm using ftp. I used the code, but it's just not showing it. It wanted no part of showing the menu, then later the page when I changed the extension to .shtml Here's what I'm wondering though...
<!--place something here-->
to me has always been something that leaves a little note in your coding. What is confusing me is:
<!--include virtual="/menu.inc.txt"-->
Is this not a note in my coding? Or is there something I'm suppose to be taking out there? I know that once I get it, I'll likely smack my forehead and say duh... but for the moment I'm still managing to look perplexed lol.
And yes... I followed his instructions. But I'm unsure of executions. Er... script that is :)
Alleira
RSaucier
6-21-02, 03:53 PM
No problem! :)
The comment tags are also used for includes.
So long as the file name in the quotes matches the file you want to include, there should be no problem. I'm not where I can test at the moment but I'll do a little verification when I can.
Robert
(Not sure why I'm saying this, the larger site I maintain uses .shtml as the extension and worked as soon as I uploaded it. But I'll double check!)
BerksWebGuy
6-21-02, 03:53 PM
I tried this method too...you can see it at:
www.berkswebguy.com/alleira
The 'test.shtml' is not calling the text file and I CHMOD both to 755. (I left the index page out on purpose).
I use a cgi script to call all my text files...so maybe that's the difference :)
BerksWebGuy
6-21-02, 04:34 PM
WooHoo...I got it finally.
Go to: www.berkswebguy.com/alleira to see it.
I also have test.txt that is the source of test.shtml
Hope this helps:)
P.S. I left the index page out on purpose
Alleira,
For what it's worth, check these things out:
To include a file within a page:
An included file can be .txt, .html, .htm, .php, etc. as mentioned before.
<!--#include file="myfile.xxx"-->
This can call any file that resides within the originating directory ONLY. If you are trying to use SSI and have a file in a different directory that you wish to call, then you need to use the <!--#include virtual="/folder/myfile.xxx" -->
<!--#include virtual="/footer.html"-->
This command is used just like the <!--#include file="myfile.xxx" --> command, only it is to call a file from a different directory than the originating page. It can be any type of file extension, as long as that file does NOT include any SSI commands.
Follow these explanations and examples with your own page/directory names.
If you encounter an error message that looks like this;
[an error occurred while processing this directive]
Then it's because you need to use the include virtual method.
Since this is new to you, you'll have to play with various options to get the include to work.
Hope I haven't confused you more.
Greg
Originally posted by Alleira
What is confusing me is:
<!--include virtual="/menu.inc.txt"-->
Is this not a note in my coding? Or is there something I'm suppose to be taking out there?
Hello Alleira!
Are you remembering to put the # before the include command? Without the pound sign, it is just a comment tag.
RSaucier
6-21-02, 05:49 PM
Alleira,
I have to apologize for omitting the # in my sample. Thanks to Greg and Ravenesse for catching it!
<head bowed in shame & embarassment>
Robert
I'm back... With # sign included! I did one in html and one as shtml. You know something? Still no menu. Perhaps it's being fussy about the .txt extension... something I had noticed when fishing through the directory on the ftp, was that the page didn't look the same as the rest. I mean the icon. When I uploaded the shtml page it had the same icon as the .txt file page. Is this possible causing some sort of problem? As I've said... I'm determined. If you want to see what happened...
http://www.sophiaswisdom.com/testing.html is the only one that shows
http://www.sophiaswisdom.com/testing.shtml refuses to be acknowledged as actually existing.
I will say that I dropped them all in the same folder as the rest of my pages. If I dont have to skip directories I'd prefer not too. I keep my images separate, and the rest of the folders don't make enough sense to me for me to do anything with them. I don't have any scripts or cgi files. Even if I did mine likely wouldn't work *grin* They'd find a way. I think I'm going to start by pulling up my .txt file and seeing what I can do with that.
Oh side note... the first link up there... with the html extension? Um.. there is actually more on that page, but when I added the coding, the box disappeared. If you look at the source you'll find there is more on that page. Lol, and you'll find the very unlovely mess that ftp makes my source code look *grin*
Thank you all. I know I'm messing up but don't know where. This part is totally new to me.
Wait! I think I know where I messed up... I think I forgot a space.
Alleira
Your Code:
<!--#include virtual="/menu.inc.txt">
It should be
<!--#include virtual="/menu.inc.txt" -->
Also, you might want to remove the double dot... just in case
instead of menu.inc.txt ... call it menuinc.txt or something
Just my "For What It's Worth"
Also, the problem of your .shtml looking different (icon) is normal.
There is no default icon associated with a .shtml extension within Windows.
Just my "For What It's Worth"
That's what I was going to correct. I got the text back on the html page, but it isn't showing the bar still. The shtml page? Lol, Um... it still says that it doesn't exist at all. I'm not sure why. I ended up putting:
<!--#include virtual="menu.inc.txt" -->
But it's not being recognized. I'm still not sure why the WAIT! I have only one thought behind why my shtml page wouldn't work... In a regular page I'd be using <html></html> as tags. In shtml am I needing to change those? (i've never used the shtml extension so I'm not sure. Just thought I'd ask my quota of cheezy questions.)
So if that's not the answer... I'm not sure what is. Okay... back to put my forward slash in and mess around some more... I have plans on getting this... This is the look of determination! And perhaps criminal insanity :)
Alleira
Since you are using the .html extension, did you remember to Chmod the file to 755 ??
That would be your testing.html file ....
BerksWebGuy
6-21-02, 08:02 PM
I use shtml and keep the <html></html> in there. If you didn't already...check out my example for you at:
www.berkswebguy.com/alleira
You can view the source on the test.txt and see what I did to make it work.
Let's start from the most basic question:
What directory have you placed these files into. Are they in htdocs?
Also, what FTP program are you using?
It sounds like something really basic is being missed here.
And BTW - the <html></html> tags stay the same.
Alleira,
Nothing personal Greg, but you should never share any of your account information with anyone except the moderator or the Admins.
Just my "For What It's Worth"
JJ, I don't even know what a Chmod is lol. The answer is nope. How do I do that and where can I check that?
I'm with JJ. I make it a point not to give out the personal information. I haven't even shared it with the other webmistress for that matter, so it's nothing personal really.
Raven I have them in htdocs. I'm also using the FTP program that was suggested here. I can see the name in my head but can't recall which one it is. I had gotten it from the FAQ section here. It works quite well to my knowledge, but I know you're looking to see if there might be a quirk with one of those programs that is commonly known. It's WS_FTP 95 LE.
I'm going to give it one more go before I quit for tonight. I would still like to know about a Chmod though.
Alleira
alphadesk
6-21-02, 08:42 PM
You can see how to chmod here.
http://help.powweb.com/tutorials/ftp/wsftple.php
Ok.. I am not sure about the LE version of WS_FTP, but if it is similar to my Pro version then here is how to Chmod (or set permissions) on a file.
Fire up WS_FTP and log onto your site, then go to your testing.html file on the server side and highlite it, then RIGHT click on the file and go to the "FTP Commands" entry on the menu... from there you will see "CHMOD (Unix)" listed, click on that and in the small window that comes up, type in 755.
To be able to use SSI and not use the .shtml extension, this is supposed to work. I can not say that it will, because personally I have never tried it.
Just my "For What It's Worth"
Same program I use. That's a good thing. Make sure you are transferring your file in ASCII mode and not auto or binary.
In this case, I think it would be to your disadvantage to have someone else do it for you anyway. You obviously have a solid grasp of html and includes don't require any additional knowledge as far as coding goes. In spite of the various ways people have found to make includes work on the server, treat this like you would with anything else that you've learned up to now. Stick with these rules first:
1) Rename your .html extension to .shtml. (regardless of whether or not other ways might work). Learn the correct way first! You can play around with variations later. If the .shtml files don't transfer properly, change them after the transfer.
2) If the files you want to include are in the same directory, use this exact syntax (trust me!):
<!--#include file="menuinc.txt"--> ( or whatever file name you want to include)
The virtual command is not necessary for your situation.
First start with absolute basics. I think at this point so many suggestions have been made, it is confusing.
I suppose your right about the account info stuff. I just removed that post. I was just trying to help...:)
You can find information concerning CHMOD for WS_FTP under the Tutorials found here:
http://powweb.com/support/ftp/permissions.html
For what we're all talking about here, I wouldn't even touch CHMOD setting for your shtml docs. You could cause them to be unreadable from your browser. And in essence cause a totally different problem than your SSI issue.
Good luck....:)
I have to agree with Raven, there has been too many suggestions and you need to start at the beginning.
I do not recommend the use of Chmoding your file, it was something mentioned in another thread and you seemed to want or need to use .html instead of .shtml.
If Raven can help, then I'll shut my big trap and let her see if she can help you understand SSI better, and maybe figure out why your .shtml file is not showind up on the host.
Just my "For What It's Worth"
Well here it is another morning... And I'm back at it again. No matter what I do, the .shtml page won't show up. It says to me that the page doesn't exist at all or in the very least cannot be found. http://www.sophiaswisdom.com/testing.shtml Why it will not work... I cannot fathom. It's identical to the other to each and every piece of coding... excluding the obvious extension differences. It's even in the same directory. :( Lol, I can't very go on a bender or renaming my pages .shtml if they aren't going to show up. At least I got the text back on the html page... So if you look at the source for http://www.sophiaswisdom.com/testing.html it will be identical to the page that won't show up (the shtml page...)
Raven, did you really want me to not put the space in this piece? <!--#include file="menuinc.txt"--> The virtual includes a space and I thought originally (about 200 tries ago... ) that this could be my problem. Once I changed it, nothing seemed to be different. Maybe it's a problem with my txt file. Don't worry I'm not messing with the Chmod thing. I learned not to mess with things like that *grin*
I'm still thinking there is something obvious here that I am not getting. Would it help if I gave the txt file? BerksWebGuy's example had the html tags, so included them in my txt file (after trying many times without and still not having it show up.)
I'm off to try a couple things.
Alleira
First of all, are you able to see the .shtml file on the server when you logon with the FTP client?
I can't see the page with the browser, but I can see other people's SSI examples, which means that that problem isn't my browser. Yup... I know you didn't ask. It shows up in the files. Gives the bent page icon, but shows me nothing else. Hold on...
The .txt page is showing up. It's http://www.sophiaswisdom.com/menuinc.txt that's showing up as being a page, but .shtml isn't. (Yes I added the <ul></ul> tags because I wondered if that was a problem. I don't suppose it is though.) I'm able to get the ftp client to acknowledge the files existance. When I highlight and click view it will show me what I have written. When it comes to hitting the web though, it's just not doing it. I don't suppose it's showing up for anyone else is it? I also tried doing a second page from scratch just in case my cut and paste was corrupt, but it wasn't. The second shtml page wouldn't show up either.
Alleira
What I am getting is a 404 error. The only way to get a 404 error is if the name of the file and the address we are typing into the browser do not match. So first double check very carefully that there isn't a typo in the name of the file somewhere. Don't worry about your include command yet. If that's messed up you will get a different error and we'll deal with that when we get to it.
Hang in there.
HAHHAHAAA!!!!!! I've got part of an answer!!!! *does a little victory dance* Ehem... now down to business. On a lark I studied the list and realized something was up. Raven, when you said that I should check the addy to make sure it was correct... well I went snooping. Something just wasn't right. Beast master here was renaming the file as such... testing.shtml.txt Yes!!! I went through, renamed in the FTP and sent it whipping to the site. I CAN SEE THE PAGE NOW!!!! :D Unfortunately it says An error occured while processing this directive... However... I am muy confident that I'm doing better. Is that the error we'd expect?
Once again... Woohoo!!! Hm... I wonder what else it did to me lol. I'm going to take another check on the ftp. I wonder if it put a .txt on the end of my .txt file? No... then it wouldnt be showing on the web at all. So that's not it. Okay... I'm maintaining an air of calmness... But pardon me while I let the woohoo's run rampant. I'm listening! :)
Alleira
Yes you are making progress and the error is the one we'd expect for the error in the include command. Now for a little Magick. ;)
Change your include to this:
<!--#include file="menuinc.txt"-->
Make sure I spelled the file name right, then copy and replace the include virtual command. No "/" !
Go into your FTP program and click on the options button at the bottom. In the pop-up window, click on the "convert" tab. Do you see why it changed the extension? If I'm correct, there is an instruction in the dialogue box to change all .shtml files to .shtml.txt. If that's there, just delete it and click apply or ok. That should take care of it.
Otherwise, I'm at a loss on that one.
I think I finally got that in place! http://www.sophiaswisdom.com/testing.shtml All my twinkly stars and the such are in place, my navigation bar is there and I think I'm going to play with the txt file to see if I can change the bar. If it works I'm in business :) I'm also going to see if the extension thing in FTP is causing problems. The thing is though... It almost seems like it could be my system making it shtml.txt This system is notoriously evil, but I could be wrong about this being the origin. That's another thread and posting altogether!
Thank you all for your patience, advice and options. If it weren't for you all I'd likely have a large dent in my desk (roughly head shaped...) and my site would still have a nav. bar that needed to be updated badly! Thank you!!
Alleira
I never doubted you! If you need any more help, just say the word!
alphadesk
6-22-02, 03:33 PM
All right,
This thread is a true success story and a real learning experience. After watching it unfold from start to finish, we have been reminded of something I personally will keep in mind for the future. Far too many times I've told a member to go here, read this etc. Many times this works, but when it doesn't "Raven" has showed us to go back to the basics and take those necessary baby steps one at a time until the problem is solved. Now Alleria not only has her solution, but also will be able to show the next member how SSI works.Marvelous Job Raven!
Give a man (or woman in this case) a fish he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, he'll eat forever. ;)
Thanks to all that participated. Members helping members is what this forum is all about and this is one more testimonial that the PowWeb forum ROCKS! :D
omegaman66
6-23-02, 02:57 AM
Looks like am jumping in to late but here are my thoughts.
First WS_FTP the light version has a bug that tells you it changed the permissions but it really doesn't. Get another program when dealing with cgi stuff.
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On the menu thing. I don't like using ssi for one reason. You must alter the file name to .shtml so once you do that all the links from other pages and search engines will no longer point to your active website anymore. Traffic takes a hit and google ranking will suffer as you will probably lose some outside links to your website.
I use javascript for my headers. My website is broken up into three different sections. Each has a slightly different menu across the top.
I just insert this code anywhere on my html document.
<script language="javascript" src="http://www.thejump.net/mymenu.JS"></script>
The menu uses the division tag for placement so it will always appear in the same place on the viewers monitor.
Advantages. I can put the code to my menu anywhere on the page but it shows up top. This lets my keywords appear higher up in the source code thereby helping with search engine ranking on some search engines.
Second. I change one file an it changes the code on all html files that use that menu.
Speed. Once a viewer downloads the menu one time they don't have to download the code again. This make the pages appear faster.
Implementation:
Make a text file called mymenu.txt
It should be blank.
Add this:
<!-- Begin
Now add the html for your menu!
Now add this:
// End -->
Now surround each line of html with this:
document.write('your html code here');
Ex: document.write('</table>');
Now save the file as mymenu.JS and upload it to your server.
Remember to put it where it is being called from.
ie<script language="javascript" src="http://www.thejump.net/mymenu.JS"></script>
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Doing menu's this way allows you to change one file and have it change everywhere. Remember that you can use the no scripts tag to put a menu for people that don't have javascript.
This allows for backgrounds showing through like you said you wanted.
rainbore
6-23-02, 01:11 PM
I know we're getting off-topic here, but the previous message caught my eye.
I was reading about search engines yesterday (I think it was in WebMonkey) and this article said that many(most?) search engines do not read/execute JavaScript or Flash scripts when they crawl a site. If that's true and your main page relies on a script-generated menu, its probably a good idea to also incorporate some hard-coded links to key pages within your site on your main page to give search engines a better shot at your content. Stuff 'em at the bottom of your page in a small font, or construct an alternative general menu to your site, as they say, "below the fold" to reduce the imact on your overall design.
Richard L. Trethewey
www.rainbo.net
omegaman66
6-23-02, 01:22 PM
Abosolutely.
You can use the noscript tag to specify links that the search engines will see but most people wont.
If your menu has buttons for links then using the noscript tag as a back up for search engines is a great way to incorporate keywords into those links as well. I personally don't worry much about the look of the menu generated by the no scripts tag because on a small percentage of views can't see javascript. So in my no script menu I use text links with keywords instead of pretty buttons and such.
Actually I have it set to come back every month. The way it's set up on my page, because of the tables it crawls the rest of the page for keywords. If you look at it, my keywords are in the first paragraph of my site. If I relied on the navigation bar, no one would visit my site lol. Nearest I can tell, the files for the side navigation load just as quickly with the SSI. I'm not crazy about renaming with shtml because I fear it will serve to confuse regulars, but I also don't know much about javascript. I have two pieces of coding on my pages that are javascript. They have been snipped from elsewhere. Otherwise I never would have managed them on my own. That's part of the reason I opted to not do the javascript menu. Just due to my unfamiliarity with the javascript language. I don't discount the usage, but for now I am going with something that seems to be working for me. On average my site averages 7 to 15 hits a day. This doesn't seem like much, but we don't pay avertising, we have a great spot on google, and we've not even been up a year. Honestly I don't know what I'd do if we hit the 'big time' like Spirit Web. I think it would scare me :) I figure I'll get there when I get there. I'm doing this for fun and not for money. So I think I'm doing pretty good. Maybe I'd like to do a shade better, but I'll get to that. I am however going to write down (or printing might be better...) all the suggestions I have gotten from people in this thread. Everyone's ideas were really great and I'm very glad I asked.
Alleira
omegaman66
6-23-02, 02:43 PM
Great. I am glad you have found something that works for you. There are lots of ways to do things on webpages and it is all up to your personal preference.
I would keep the old .html pages on the server for awhile and modify them so that their links point to the new .shtml pages. Also you might want to tell the spiders to not index those pages anymore. As well as let the visitors know that the .html pages are going away so that they can fix there bookmarks.
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