View Full Version : Netscape comatibility?
I have some users of my website that use Netscape and Opera, and they are having issues viewing my site. Can anyone recommend any tools to help me get my site Netscape & Opera compatible?
I use FrontPage 2002 as my editor.
Any help is appreciated.
there are no tools...you should just download Netscape and change accordingly....
It is time consuming and not worth the time!!
The "main" problem that I see when using Netscape for your site is that the menu does not funtion. There are other menus available that are cross browser compatible.
But if you want the site to look the same in both IE and NS, you would need to almost do a complete overhaul of the whole site. Depending on just how many users you have that use NS or Opera, it may be more work than it's worth.
When you look at scripts, menus and such for use on a site, they normally list what browsers they will work with. But even then there are other aspects that come into play that can cause them to fail under certain scenarios.
Just my "For What It's Worth"
Originally posted by nmsupplies
there are no tools...you should just download Netscape and change accordingly....
It is time consuming and not worth the time!!
I'm apalled that you can say that you do web design, yet also say that it's not worth the time to make something work in the browsers that your viewers are using.
-Scott
Thanks for the feedback all.
The only things I am having issues with, are the watermark backgrounds I have on a couple of pages and the sliding menu.
I only have 5 users out of 175 that use Netscape and Opera as their only browsers. I will probably leave it as it is for now, as I don't have the time to reconstruct everything.
Again, thanks for the information!
I don't want to heat up the browser wars here either, but whatever the breakdown of IE to Netscape users you have now, the chances are that it is going to start to change significantly and soon.
America Online is going to start incorporating Netscape into their software in the near future. They have already incorporated it into their client software for their subsidiary CompuServe. I suppose some sites can ignore AOL users, but for most sites AOL users represent a large percentage of their visitors. On our e-commerce site, they represent about 20-25% of our clientelle. And, the insidious part of that is that AOL users do not tend to EMail the webmaster when a problem occurs. They just go somewhere else.... along with their business.
Netscape's Developer library has an excellent collection of documentation to help you cope with cross-browser compatibility. Check it out at:
http://developer.netscape.com/index.html?cp=tectdpDEV
Good luck!
Richard L. Trethewey
www.rainbo.net
Dear sdbarker
If you don't work out something compatabile for all browsers immediately, then it's not worth the time....escpecially if you do web design!!
Netscape have several cons but Netscape users can still access all my websites. For example, I can't not use java becuase of Netscape users....however they would no see some effects...
If you have some alignments show wrongly with Netscape, again it is not worth to do all the realignments of all the pages...since all the text can be read!
After all this is an opinion!
SBGlasby
7-13-02, 10:09 PM
tables
absolute sizing & positioning
& SSI
works with both browsers....
if you use someonelses scripts..... make sure they work in both....
java can been seen by netscape..... except ver 3.0.... didn't have the java runtime installed.... but can be...... 4.0 should see....Since java is not only 100% cross-browser compatabile..... but cross system compatabile as well...... you'd be amazed how much java is being used now..... cell phones.... microwaves.... vcr's, just about everything with some type of LCD output... is being programmed in java.....
the only real issue I've never quite worked out with netscape... is background images inside table..... netscape really butchers them......
anyone serious " not meaning to insult anyone "..... but anyone serious about web-design..... should concern themselves greatly with netscape vs. IE incompatabilities....
I know of a very talented designer..... that is looking for work ..... because he.... admittedly refused to design for netscapes quirks.... well..... needless to say.... the company who was paying him.... decided they didn't need anyone..... that didn't take his job seriously....... and refused to accomodate any POTENTIAL...... visitors to the company site......
just my 2 cents....
Here's another point of view on the subject:
http://forum.powweb.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6066
As you said "you'd be amazed how much java is being used now....." but if you've ever noticed even NetScape 6.2 is not compatible with 4.x executable Java Scripts. Further, " but anyone serious about web-design..... should concern themselves greatly with Netscape vs. IE incompatibilities....", even Jim Clark the father of NetScape has posted his new site as NetScape non compliant. And finally, " I know of a very talented designer..... that is looking for work ..... because he.... admittedly refused to design for nets quirks....", just proves you can only ride a bicycle backwards so long.
SBGlasby
7-14-02, 10:08 AM
java - javascript..... 2 completely differnt things....
for those who don't know.... or are just geting into web-design....
java is a complied language....
javascript = a scripting language......
java = will run on any computer "standalone".... "if ported properly ".....
javascript = primarily for use with browers......
java = can do almost anything....
javascript = severly limited.....
Javasript was born and named " lightscript"..... by the developers of netscape....... it was around for about a year.... and no-one was really using it........ then JAVA... was released... and was such a big hit with developers..... they decided to re-release lightscript as "javascript"....... the marketing ploy worked.... because javascript.... was thought to be a "lite version" of java........ it's not.....
Enter........ MS....... they decide "as always"..... that they to re-write the javascript interpreter..... MS can't BUY...... netscape...... "SEC limitations"...... so they just start re-writing the javascript interpreter for THEIR browser...... and that's why IE will see certain things and nsescape won't....
The Browser Wars..... are not a war at all........
ever hear of the AIR-BAG wars?......
let's say you buy a car. "pre-airbag days"........
you hear there is a company.... that makes a product.... to make your car better & safer....... called an air-bag.....
so you go buy one... install it.... and are completely happy..... you made the decision... and invested in your air-bag......
NOW..... back to the present...... DO you have a choice of air-bags to be installed in your new car...... NO..... you take what you're given......
wether it works properly.... or at all...... you have no idea.... beacuse it was already there....... if it burns you.... or hurts you.... you can't complain....
IE is the air-bag.... of browsers.....
I bet if IE..... had to " in the beginning"...... sell their browser... as a seperate program.... on the market.... and rely strickly on sales of people buying and installing it..... to stay in business.... we'd all be looking at this screen in netscape.....
but because it's " An integral part of the OS"..... you don't have a choice.......
People use " by nature"... what is easiest.... and available.... but for the thousands that refuse to bow down and let coporate air-bags...... control.....
There's Netscape......
BTW.... my previous post was speaking of "JAVA"......
NetScape 6.2 and Mozilla 1.0 are very good browsers and if one is concerned with a choice other than IE/Microsoft or continue the use of an out dated NetScape they provide two very good options. When I was speaking of Java I just meant one must install Java in NetScape to enable Java Script but NetScapes 6.2 Java is not compatible with NetScape 4.x Java and subsequently many Java Scripts implemented during the 4.x era do not function when rendered by 6.2 and vice verse. So I guess one might say not all Javas are equal as well.
sdbarker
7-14-02, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by SBGlasby
<snip>
Dude, what is with all the periods? Seriously? Why?
-Scott
First of all...
I don't design for Netscape for anything that I do personally. If I'm working for a client, then I make a compatibility plan. For my stuff, though, I avoid Netsc(r)ape.
<opinion>
There are a lot of comments about how serious web designers do not slam Netscape. Serious designers do not avoid Netscape. You cannot call yourself a web developer unless you consider Netscape... blahblahblah. That's all that such arguments are: blah. Is Monet not truly a painter since he refused to use straight lines in his work? Is a piece by Mondrian not really art because it doesn't actually depict anything?
Saying that someone is not truly a web designer simply because they dismiss a technologically inferior product is silly. Saying that someone is not truly a web designer simply because they refuse to retard their own creativity is silly. Saying that someone isn't a web designer just because they prefer to NOT design strictly for HTML 2.0 standards is also silly.
Personally, I usually design such that all the hard interpretive work is done on the server, thereby making the client pretty much irrelevant. I can't stand Netscape, and I don't design for it unless I have to.
I've made a pretty decent living from internet programming for several years now, in spite of being a fraud... ;)
Microsoft introduced their proprietary JScript, but this has nothing to do with JavaScript support. The 'standard' javascript is based on ECMA specifications, and the fact of the matter is that Microsoft (any/all extensions aside) supports the ECMA standard better than Netscape. And that is why IE will display some scripts which Netscape won't-- even ones using code within the demarcations of the standard.
Honestly, and this like most of the above is my opinion, I wish that everyone would just refuse to design for incompatible browsers. If the thing won't follow standards (and current standards, at that), then lock it out. Browser upgrades are easy, painless, and free. People will do it. They NEED their internet, and they will take a free and fast upgrade to get it back. The sooner that the browsing community embraces the newer browsing technologies, the sooner we can all worry about what REALLY matters-- content. Worrying about making your site look acceptable -- notice I said acceptable, not spectacular, but acceptable -- in ALL browsers is really a waste of valuable time.
As if Monet would have painted a greyscale version of Water Lillies, just in case a viewer happened to be color blind...
</opinion>
I have 5 sets of NPJava11.dll, NPJava12.dll, NPJava32.dll, and NPJava131.dll files resident in my PC. NetScape Communicator, NetScape 6, Opera 6.04, Mozilla, Java Soft 1.3.1, and Java Soft 1.3.1_02 each have a set with Mozilla and Java Soft 1.3.1_02 having a variant NPJava131_02.dll rather than a NPJava131.dll. Microsoft has it's own msjava.dll. Each of the NPJavaxx+ files are correspondingly equal in size, so I assume the same files, but obviously function very differently. Are these not the files/programs used by the corresponding browsers to render "Java Script" and if so why do they not produce like results. Also, is it safe to say "Java" is server side and "Java Script" is client side applicable for the purposes of internet functions.
Mirzabah
7-14-02, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by snodghag
I have some users of my website that use Netscape and Opera, and they are having issues viewing my site. Can anyone recommend any tools to help me get my site Netscape & Opera compatible?
I use FrontPage 2002 as my editor.First of all I would ask whether it is Netscape 4.7x or Netscape 6.x that you need to support. If it's the former, then you're in for a big headache. The latter is reasonably OK.
Secondly, I suggest not using FrontPage. It gives you very little control over the generated HTML/JavaScript. For compatibility you will have to hack the generated code which will make it harder to modify later using FrontPage. It's easier to hand craft the code, or use a real HTML editor like DreamWeaver.
Finally, despite what others have said, there are tools that can help you make your pages compatible with different browsers. There are a number of online HTML validators that will do compatibility checks. Some are free. Check out this page (http://www.webcom.com/html/validators.shtml). Note that the W3C validator only checks for standards compliance which is not the same thing as browser compatibility.
SBGlasby
7-16-02, 06:12 PM
pauses.......... DUDE !!!!!!
when you speak..... you inject pauses.... into your sentences to make a point.........
Same thing here..... by slowing your eyes down
Must have worked
Never had anyone comment on them before though.
For those of you that are extreem anti-microsoft. I heard something on the radio today that made me more open minded to them (although I was already):
<Semi Quote>
Think how much Microsoft has made are life easier and better. And most of us probably wouldn't be here right now with out Microsoft.
</semi quote>
I personnally don't use Netscape (although I used to). I am trying to make my site cross browser compatible. One thing that concerns me is the AOL switch from IE to Netscape. If any of you use the latest edition of AIM, you can see the Netscape being incorporated with it, so I am sure AOL is not far behind.
<personal oppinion>
AOL should go to ****
</personal oppinion>
But to many ppl use it for me to ignore it.
<summary>
So in the future I am going to be incorporating cross browser compatability especially b/c of AOL soon change and Microsoft is not really bad.
</summary>
sdbarker
7-17-02, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by SBGlasby
pauses.......... DUDE !!!!!!
when you speak..... you inject pauses.... into your sentences to make a point.........
Yes. When you SPEAK.
Originally posted by SBGlasby
Same thing here..... by slowing your eyes down
And hurting them?
Originally posted by SBGlasby
Never had anyone comment on them before though.
There's a first time for everything.
-Scott
Mirzabah
7-17-02, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by SBGlasby
when you speak..... you inject pauses.... into your sentences to make a point.........Yes. That's why we have commas, periods, colons and other assorted punctuation marks. And when I speak, I don't inject pauses where they are not appropriate. For instance, your sentence above does not require any pauses. In fact, inserting them as you have done would make it sound like you have heart failure or emphysema.Originally posted by SBGlasby
Same thing here..... by slowing your eyes downQuite the opposite. Your unique punctuation style speeds my eyes up - they skip right over your messages in a single blink ;)Originally posted by SBGlasby
Never had anyone comment on them before though. Possibly because most people have better things to do with their time.
SBGlasby
7-18-02, 06:01 PM
bit off the topic aren't we.....
I guess this is what
Possibly because most people have better things to do with their time.
In an official capacity, I use proper punctuation, since I do live in the digital world, and I make quite a handsome living at it, but here, I thought it was much more informal.
Guess all the corporate web-designers are critiquing the way I type.
Quite possibly why Netscape compatability has been overlooked so long, instead of trying to learn, you critique the way someone is trying to convey a message. This has always been a hot topic, but I had no idea , some will turn to personal attacks just to get off a subject .
I come here to LEARN and HELP , "when I can", there's absolutely no need for personal attatcks, that draw a thread off topic.
Say what you will , that's definetly not the purpose of this board.
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