Images not Displaying

[geosha]

Hi, and I have a hassle which is more "annoying" than "serious"

My two sites, details below, are Photo Albumns, and have been in operation for a number of years
There is nothing fancy!!! - just links or thumbnails to click on to see the photos - nothing complicated!!!

Until recently, every time you opened a page, all the images displayed - perfectly every time

But over the past fortnight, some images are not displaying

Here is an example
http://www.ronebergcairns.com/2005onwards/house05_034.html

This page has around 180 thumbnail images
Each time I open it, approx 5 images do not display
So I refresh the page, and again a few images do not display - but are different to the first five or so that don't show up
Everytime you refresh, the same thing happens
The dreaded "rectangle with the red 'x' in it"!!!

Just to satisfy myself, I keep refreshing the page until every image displays - but it may take more the a half dozen reloads before it happens

This is just one example - the same thing happens to other pages throughout my sites

As I said, it is annoying
It has only started recently, and no changes have been made to the site, etc, etc

Is there an explanation for what might be causing it???

Thanks --- Geoff

[bwhite]

I just tried it from Hawaii and the pictures loaded... thouogh you have so many it takes a bit longer. It could be a local connection problem in your area... or I have also found that if you interrupt the download, that is remembered in your browser's cache. Then you keep having the problem.. So make sure you empty your cache totally.

Anyway as of right this moment it worked from here.

Aloha ... brad

[geosha]

Hi Brad
and appreciate you having a look

Glad all the thumbnails showed up

Yeh, there are a lot of pics - but I don't mind the time it takes to download, just so long as they all do!!!

Maybe it is something local
And I will keep the cache cleaned out

Regards --- Geoff

[IanS]

It also loaded quite quickly here in the UK, considering the 135 images.

[YvetteKuhns]

It took a while but MOST of the images appeared. I don't see an image for A Pocket Guide to Carlton Ware, "Badische Uhrenfabrik A G" Carriage Clock (third image), "Emes" Ceramic Kitchen Wall Clock, Antique Timber Drinks Tray, Bakelite Bed Lamp, Bushells Advertising Sign, and Anodised Aluminium Cookware Set.

[geosha]

Thanks IanS and YvetteKuhns!!!

YvetteKuhns
--- and that is exactly what I am asking about!!!
Those images did not appear, but if you refreshed the page they would - but a few others that did the first time would not!!!
Why does it chop-and-change and always seem to leave out a few???
As I said in my original post, 'tis annoying - and also frustrating not knowing what's causing it!!!
I assure you all the images are there
Thanks again
Geoff

[BerksWebGuy]

It didn't get 3-5 of the images using IE and FireFox (just as a sampling). But if I refreshed or went directly to where the image was supposed to be, I saw it.

Something seems to be getting tired quickly. I would also highly recommend breaking that page up into viewable parts.

[geosha]

Hi BerksWebGuy
Thanks

"Something seems to be getting tired quickly"
Not being an expert, could you eloborate a bit on this??
Me??
PowWeb??

"I would also highly recommend breaking that page up into viewable parts"
Iknow I should!!! - and I will!!!
BUT
as I said, this problem has only started to occur over the week or two
Worked perfectly before that, with the same amount of images on the page

Hope this can be solved somehow!!!

[YvetteKuhns]

When I revisited the page, all of the images appeared. I did not clear my cache, so the other images were already loaded. Try using an image preloader script.

[johnwa]

Until recently, every time you opened a page, all the images displayed - perfectly every time
But over the past fortnight, some images are not displaying
--- Geoff

--How interesting! I have been having the exact same issue with my site for about the passed four days or so. It was NOT behaving this way before. I had planned to ask here before reporting it, but you beat me to it. Sometimes, images load, sometimes they don't. They can be very tiny icons or emoticons, or they can be pictures. There really is no exact pattern, except to say that pages with images are not loading completely everytime. I would be interested in hearing if anyone else is seeing this.

[YvetteKuhns]

I think that there is a slowness or hiccup in the server. It may be a scanner or firewall affecting the server, but those who have several items to load such as images will be more likely to notice. Simple text sites will load much faster and may not notice a difference.

[geosha]

I am the original thread starter,
and having read through the replies, it looks like there might be a problem somewhere

The "testing" done by the people who looked at my site,
plus the comments from others having the same comment re images loading over the past week or so

I have never had to do this before - thankfully
so what is the procedure to follow to have this looked at by those who can fix it???

I "hate" those rectangles-with-red-xx's!!! - and would like it sorted out as soon as possible

Thanks again to all who commented

Geoff

[HalfaBee]

It appears to be a slow server error of some kind.
Attached is a wget log of the page load.
You will see read errors on some of the images.
It seems to be quite common to have one or two errors per page.

Send it to support@powweb.com and maybe it will help them realize there is a problem.

Hope this helps.

[geosha]

Hey HalfaBee

THANKS for taking the time to do that!!!

I will admit that I don't know what a "wget log of the page load" really is,
but I could see the errors mentioned

As you suggested, I have sent a note and this 'zip' file to the Support email address

Regards
Geoff

[HalfaBee]

I am sure everyone in this thread is waiting to hear the response ;)

wget is a unix webpage loader.

[omegaman66]

Same issue on my site for many days now. This isn't the answer to the problem but if you get a few images that don't load it is better to wait on the red X and then right click on them and just reload those images without reloading the ones that loaded correctly the first time.

[HalfaBee]

This isn't the answer to the problem but if you get a few images that don't load it is better to wait on the red X and then right click on them and just reload those images without reloading the ones that loaded correctly the first time.

True.
It shouldn't be happening in the first place and it needs to be fixed, not much use having a server that cannot reliably serve files.

It looks like some kind of network error between the Apache server and the file server as the image is served correctly on the next retry 20 secs later.

[geosha]

Hi again

As the original thread starter, and for the interest of those who responded, I will keep this thread updated as to the information I receive from PowWeb
I will post anything I receive from them

As far as my site goes, the problem is still there

Reference post #15 above
It is now 24 hours since I sent my email and the 'zip' file to Support
I have not had a response

Will see what the next day brings, and may resend my note if there is still no reply

Regards
Geoff

[YvetteKuhns]

Until/unless PowWeb fixes the issue, maybe you could put less images on one page. Could you split this page into two or three pages or by category? Or at least put the books on their own page.

[Builder]

But I've even seen this on some of my pages where there are only 2-3 graphics, and only one loads from the server. Usually it's a very tiny graphic, 1-5kb in size.

Granted, splitting 100+ thumbnails into several pages will probably, OK definitely, help. Reduces total page load time and the chances of individual images not loading because of some possible slow server issue.

Kevin

[YvetteKuhns]

But I've even seen this on some of my pages where there are only 2-3 graphics, and only one loads from the server. Usually it's a very tiny graphic, 1-5kb in size.

That is pathetic! :eek:

Granted, splitting 100+ thumbnails into several pages will probably, OK definitely, help. Reduces total page load time and the chances of individual images not loading because of some possible slow server issue.

This will not solve the server problem, but it will improve the load time and chances of people seeing the images without refreshing the web pages. Just a suggestion.

[Builder]

That is pathetic! :eek:
It's only happened a few times. Not enough to be annoying, and not with any "mission-critical" image.
This will not solve the server problem, but it will improve the load time and chances of people seeing the images without refreshing the web pages. Just a suggestion.
That's what I meant, but you explained it much better. :D More coffee...

Kevin

[YvetteKuhns]

I have a high speed Internet connection and the images should not take long to load. I have seen php forums with news feeds load faster than this page full of thumbnails.

[joshuamc]

I was able to replicate the issue and I've sent our NetOPs guys a report with the wget log included. *thanks HalfaBee

[YvetteKuhns]

I was able to replicate the issue

Yay! It is annoying when the staff doesn't get the same results that the customers get. It is like having car trouble and when you tell the mechanic that the car makes a funny noise, but it doesn't when the mechanic drives it.

[omegaman66]

I would imagine that something like this is due to too much demand on the servers and will only be corrected by adding more POWER to their system. IF this or something else like that is the case I sure would appreciate it if they would simply respond with- "the above is the problem and it will be 2 to 3 months before it is fixed" instead of just leaving us wondering.

[IanS]

I would imagine that something like this is due to too much demand on the servers and will only be corrected by adding more POWER to their system. IF this or something else like that is the case I sure would appreciate it if they would simply respond with- "the above is the problem and it will be 2 to 3 months before it is fixed" instead of just leaving us wondering.Agreed, it would be nice to be told a timescale. BUT, in this case it's only just over 1hr since the problem was passed on by a member of staff! It would be nice to get an update of progress but to expect it this quick is unrealistic and counter productive. Giving constant updates slows the process of rectification down. Time spent here, is time away from solving the problem.

[omegaman66]

We must have typed at the same time.

Thanks joshuamc that is exactly the type of feedback I wanted to hear!

The exact problem and its solution may not be known yet but the fact that they have seen the problem and will attempt to find a solution is what I needed/wanted to hear.

Next an update like "the problem is X, the solution is Y, and the timeframe is Z would be super!

[IanS]

Next an update like "the problem is X, the solution is Y, and the timeframe is Z would be super!Or even, "the problem is X, we think we know the solution, the timeframe for US to test and implement it is Z" - in other words, I/we don't need to know their solution, just that Powweb are going to test then implement it. Let's hope they can find the problem first!

[omegaman66]

Exactly, I don't demand perfection and have to have all answers and responses be rosy. I do put my loyalty behind a company/person that is giving it the best shot and is honest with me even if the results aren't always what I would like.

[IanS]

I received a reply from a level 2 support tech saying "your images load just fine"
They do not load "just fine"

Hopefully the info that Josh sent the NetOPS poeple will get a better response.

[geosha]

Hi again, and I am the thread starter

Firstly, to those who have suggested that the page I listed in the original post should be redsigned!!! - and split up!!!
You are right!!! - I know this!!! - and will do it!!!
It started out with just a few thumbnails, and was added to until it has the 180 odd now!!!
My Darling Wife keeps buying stuff!!!

BUT IT IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT UNTIL A WEEK AGO IT WAS DOWNLOADING PERFECTLY
Every time you logged on, it downloaded perfectly and completely

Also, this page was used an as example
As has been mentioned in other posts, even pages with one or two images will sometimes get the "Red X"!!!

I still haven't received a reply from PowWeb Support, but it was great to read the post by 'joshuamc' and his note about the NetOPs guys
Hopefully the solution is close!!!

(hope I don't get that "your images load just fine" reply!!!)

Bye --- Geoff

[HalfaBee]

heh, you got the canned response from Level 1 support ;)

[HalfaBee]

This is a very random issue, it will take some aggresive testing and debugging to locate the problem.
Hopefully with the issue being identified and logged, it will be escalated to a geek to be fixed.
I was able to recreate the error using wget.

I can just imagine the Outage post for this problem.
You might find some images/pages do not load every time.

We are looking into the problem!

[geosha]

Hi, and I am the original thread starter

As I wrote in posts #19 and #35, I was going to follow this thread up

It is now 48 hours since my email to PowWeb Support, and I have not received a reply
BUT
all the images on the page mentioned in post #1 are now loading!!!

Naturally over the last few days I have kept an eye on it
Every now and again I clicked on the page but there was always a few "Red X's"
Now it downloads completely and perfectly!!!
Every time - and I also make the sure 'cache has been emptied'

I noticed that "keyplyr" above also says his site is 'normal'

Is this a bit of magic, or is it in response to "joshuamc and the NetOPs guys" as per post #26???

Can a further post be made by "those in the know" to confirm anything that may have been done???

Naturally though, I will still be keeping 'a close eye' on how pages/images download over the next few days

If it is fixed - thanks to those who did it

Regards --- Geoff

[gardensafari]

Today the page this thread is about, loaded for me completely (for the very first time ever, I tried a few times before) and there were no red X's. However this took 89.208 seconds (FireFox counts them, I didn't) and I am on cable. Normally I never give a page that much time. It is a problem after the transfer to the new servers though: pages load slowly, especially when there are some pictures on them. Another thing that happens to me occassionally is that the external CSS-file is not loaded. So a page appears that has not been made up properly, or which is not made up AT ALL. Clicking the refresh button makes the same page appear fast as hell and usually correctly made up. It is weird and the problems appear to be random, for many times there are no problems whatsoever....

[Scanner29y]

I've had the same problem with two (2) different sites, both of them while using PHP (one is a calendar, the other is Oscommerce). Funny thing is that I noticed that the problem gets worst between 12:00pm EST and 4:00pm EST. On my OSC site I was adding a product (this is the latest issue I Had) and I had to refresh it four (4) times before seeing any results. Mysql dbase for oscommerce is on MySql15. After reading thru a LOT of other posts (some nice, others a little more violent) I've come to the conclusion that:

There is a Problem
Is not on our side, but on PW
It Needs to be fixed ASAP, because everyday more and more users are noticing


My only tech experience with this subject was a ticket I opened a while back, and the only response I got was "everything seems ok here".

There's just got to be a better way to approach both, the problem and the solution, from both parties (users and staff), and GET'R DONE!

[entrecon]

On a side note regarding the original post....

Any reason you have decided to add 180 images to 1 page?

From a usability standpoint it isn't very friendly. It would be much cleaner (and friendlier) if there was a books page, a furniture page, etc.

Granted PW should increase the reliability of the servers to deliver the pages, but as designers we also have a responsibility to our audience to make our pages friendly.

This is about the 4th post I have seen complaining about speed issues when the pages in question were very heavy in graphics. I try to keep in mind that there are still some people out there that are stuck with a dial-up connection. The number is decreasing, but they are still out there.

So, you have 180 images that probably average 2k each...that is 360k

With a 25% overhead, this page is going to take about 56 seconds to load on a 64kbps ISDN line. When support is loading your page it probably takes about 1-2 seconds to load, not much can go wrong in that time frame. In 60 seconds alot can go wrong on the server, across the net, or on the local machine.

For mor calculations on download times, take a look at: http://www.numion.com/Calculators/Time.html

[YvetteKuhns]

This is about the 4th post I have seen complaining about speed issues when the pages in question were very heavy in graphics.

I noticed that, also. I expect server-side scripts to have longer load times, but I have seen them load faster than HTML pages with numerous images. I agree that the number of images and their file sizes should be taken into consideration. BUT.... there actually is some kind of problem with the server, because some thumbnails take a while to appear on a page with only a few images in some cases!

[joshuamc]

To Goeff:

After speaking with some guys from NetOPS, we've already pretty much came to the same consensus: you are trying to load too many images from one page. Browsers takes all the requests made from a web page (a request for example would be trying to load just 1 image) and places them in a stack. It will only queue up 2 requests at a time. If at some point while it is chugging a long, it doesn't receive acknowledgement back in time, it moves on to the new request. The end result is that you are left with a page that has some requests being fulfilled (in your instance, the image appears) and some that are not (missing images). When you refresh, the images that did load are loaded from cache and then ones that weren't loaded the first time are re-requested and are loaded just fine.

The solution is to design your site better. Categories and paginate the items and you'll not only solve this problem, but likely increase conversions as a result of making items someone wants much eaiser to find. There's a multitidue of reasons why you should and very few why you shouldn't.

[geosha]

***Just saw the post from joshuamc***
***Thanks, and working on it!!!***
***As mentioned below***

*******************************************
*******************************************

Hi, and I am the thread starter

Firstly, since my post #40 above on the 20th October, there has been no problems with the page loading - as mentioned way back in post #1
Thanks, PowWeb!!

Hi, entrecon
and you are right - the page should be better
Numerous people who responded to this post have mentioned this - and I assure you the "work is being done"!!
Just taking a while, 'cause of changing all the links, etc
Not an expert here!! - just one pic at a time, and making sure that everything works okay on my browser before uploading it to my site
How did it get this way??
Just kept adding --- and adding!!!
Both of my sites mentioned in my signature below are like "Photo Albumns - Family History Albumns" and were started a long time ago
Didn't know much then, and many mistakes were made!!
Know a little bit more now, and mistakes are getting fewer!!

YvetteKuhns has just written - "BUT.... there actually is some kind of problem with the server, because some thumbnails take a while to appear on a page with only a few images in some cases!"
This point has been made in earlier posts in this thread, and I did have these hassles as well
But as I said, everything seems to be working fine now - in respect to my two sites
Hope it is the same for everyone

Finally, in reference to my post #15 back on 18th October (reference assistance from HalfaBee), I still have not received a direct reply from PowWeb Support

Regards
Geoff

[gardensafari]

To Joshuamc

The page we are talking about here is extreme. That is true. And you are right to advise the man to rearrange his page. That is true too. Still in my humble opinion you are missing one point: he probably had less problems on the old servers. So your answer to him is beside the point. It certainly is to me. The slowly loading pictures is a problem on YOUR SIDE, so please stop putting the blame on your customers. The problems appear too random to not be your shortcoming. And as other people said before me they appear from between 16:00 and 18:00 hrs UTC onwards. When I update my page, which I do at about midnight your time (I live in Europe) every day there is no problem at all. Checking my updates on line runs smoothly. But when I check my own page when I get back from work (which is at about 10:00 am your server time), things are worse and they get more awful after that. During weekends however problems appear more randomly. This makes me suspect that it is simply a lack of server power on your side during peak hours. So please stop blaming us and start to do something about it.
My page www.gardensafari.net/ usually loads well, especially when there are mainly Europeans surfing, but the simple navigation bar regularly loads as slow as a snail in local evening hours when Americans start to join the Europeans in surfing. I had some problems with PowWeb before, but this definitely is a new one! I really liked PowWeb though, but this problem drives me nuts... My simple site is used in Dutch schools quite a lot, but children are even more impatient than adults are, so this is a problem I can do without.

[HalfaBee]

To Goeff:

After speaking with some guys from NetOPS, we've already pretty much came to the same consensus: you are trying to load too many images from one page. Browsers takes all the requests made from a web page (a request for example would be trying to load just 1 image) and places them in a stack. It will only queue up 2 requests at a time. If at some point while it is chugging a long, it doesn't receive acknowledgement back in time, it moves on to the new request. The end result is that you are left with a page that has some requests being fulfilled (in your instance, the image appears) and some that are not (missing images). When you refresh, the images that did load are loaded from cache and then ones that weren't loaded the first time are re-requested and are loaded just fine.

The solution is to design your site better. Categories and paginate the items and you'll not only solve this problem, but likely increase conversions as a result of making items someone wants much eaiser to find. There's a multitidue of reasons why you should and very few why you shouldn't.

What a great idea, have 10 pages that have images not loading on them!

[gardensafari]

What a great idea, have 10 pages that have images not loading on them!

:D :D

[YvetteKuhns]

What a great idea, have 10 pages that have images not loading on them!

Yeah, let's go back to the 1970s. The hardware and software should handle more. We all agree that too much is too much. But there WERE pages with less than 6 images on them that took more time to load than usual. I did witness this for people who have posted here. I haven't seen this on any of my sites (yet). I would have suspected thumbnail creators, but everyone is using different methods.

[akusto]

As I see there are a lot of threads going on with similar issue, so I don't want to start another one...

I have had complaints from my customers who have had problems with downloading mp3 songs from our site. http://confuture.net/main.php?page=download

Typical problem is that the file downloads only partially. They say that site is slow too.

My wild guess (=not guilty until proven guilty) for these performance issues on Powweb servers is that either
a) the load balancing is somehow broken and drops the connections or
b) there is simply too much traffic over the capacity, which leads to timeouts on server side.

I have had similar problems with misconfigured http-proxies that had failing load balancing.

Have you guys tried to tweak the php.ini timeouts? Of course, this is not a proper way to fix it, but at least it could help a little.

I think I will try this next: http://forum.powweb.com/showthread.php?t=69026

[joshuamc]

Guys, please don't confuse slowness (which may be an issue) with random image loading problems. I was addressing the original concern that on his page, sometimes not all of the images would load. If he broke up the page some, I don't think that would be a problem. Would that stop the page from loading slowly if there was an issue with the pool he is on? No. I hope that clarifies my position.