Building new system - feedback desired!

[tpoynton]

Greetings - I need to get a new computer, and prefer to build them myself! However, it has been quite a while, and I have not kept up to date on hardware changes over the past three years of so.

I primarily use my computer for light software development, web, email, and basic document creation and such. Of course, I do some web development too! I do not play video games, but do plan on learning how to convert camcorder videos to digital files. I am trying to build the best 'bang for the buck' computer I can, and have modeled many of my choices after the Extremetech article of the same name.

My current computer is an Athlon XP 2200 computer with 512mb of RAM and a 20gb hard drive that is just over 2/3 full.

Below is what I am planning on putting together to build a new Vista system. If you have any suggestions or feedback, I welcome it!

Case - Antec Sonata III - comes with 500 watt PS
Motherboard - GIGABYTE GA-P35C-DS3R LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX
Processor - Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 Conroe 2.66GHz LGA 775
Video card - PNY VCG86512GXPB-OC GeForce 8600GT 512MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16
Memory - Kingston HyperX 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit
Hard drive - Western Digital Caviar RE WD1600YS 160GB
Card reader - Atech Flash Xm-4U 11-in-1 USB 2.0 Black & Silver Internal card reader
Optical drive - SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA

My understanding is that this is a 64 bit processor? Newegg has 'system builder' operating systems that specify 64 or 32 bit, but the 'retail' boxes of Vista do not make the distinction. i am wondering if both 32 and 64 bit versions are in the retail boxes?

Thanks for reading, and if you have any thoughts, please share!

[YvetteKuhns]

My current computer is an Athlon XP 2200 computer with 512mb of RAM and a 20gb hard drive that is just over 2/3 full.

You need more RAM and a bigger hard drive! ;)

My understanding is that this is a 64 bit processor?

Vista and Windows XP 64-bit run most software used on 32-bit, but sometimes you have to search for drivers. 99% of the software I used before works on them.

Sony didn't have a camera driver, so I simply bought a memory card/stick reader. I no longer connect my camera to my tower. I take out the memory stick and put it in the reader that is connected to my tower.

Norton Systemworks didn't work. It worked out for the best as I changed to CA which doesn't slow down my computer at startup! Photoshop is sometimes flaky, but I don't know if the OS is to blame.

Aside from those things, I have been happy with 64-bit. While I do not play games, my son does. I LOVE Gigabyte motherboards! They are SO EASY to use! Kingston's website shows exactly which RAM to buy for Gigabyte. They also have a card reader I know works with this system.

Your system sounds great, though I personally have more luck with Maxtor than Western Digital hard drives. The WD hard drives only last a year for me! And I still love Radeon video cards. They work so well with this system that my screen looked great before installing the video drivers! Other systems show screens that are almost as ugly as safe mode until drivers are installed.

[tpoynton]

Thanks Yvette - I remember you talking about your system! I have had good luck with the WD hard drives, and the only HD I have ever had crap out was a maxtor. Go figure!

In fact, my knowledge of 64 bit driver issues was actually from you :)

I am close to 'pulling the trigger' on this, but do want to hear from other folks who have recently built a system or know about this stuff. Like you, I typically favor AMD, but the core 2 duo's seem to be the way to go.

thanks again!

[tpoynton]

here's a link (http://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/wishlist/PublicWishDetail.asp?WishListNumber=9072087) to the components on newegg; still looking for advice if you have any to share!

[IanS]

If the motherboard supports it, I'd go for 4Gb of RAM. That leaves plenty of headroom for video applications to co-exist with others.

[Croc Hunter]

The only thing I don't like is that case. I'd take a hacksaw, cut a nice design in the side of it, cover with a sheet of perspex and put a few neon leads inside. I'd go for more RAM too, Kingston are decent from my experience esp their DDR2. And sadly you are right, Intel is again leading the market over AMD with their Core 2 Duo.

I rather Seagate over Western Digital for drive reliability even though Seagate can be slightly noisier (sp?). As you plan to dabble in DVD/video editing the Samsung DVD±R for $30 (which is really a Writemaster DVD±RW 12x) is fine (be sure to update the firmware). Some complain they are noisy, but I like the whole airplane powering up the runway feeling myself lol (it's a bloke thing). GeForce are the only video cards I buy and considering DVD work if you can go at least 2Gig it'll be smoother.

Sounds like you've done your research, go ahead and pull the trigger.

[YvetteKuhns]

I have two of this tower (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811208008) in green and it looks even better in person.

[tpoynton]

Excellent feedback - thanks Croc, Ian, and Yvette (alphabetically)!

Regarding the memory; the motherboard has 4 slots, but do I lose any dual channel benefits by using 4 sticks? I should probably just get two 2gb sticks. when I've built systems before I always start off saying 'i'll never need that much memory', then within 2 years I need more memory. The few bucks extra for getting 2 2gb sticks is probably worth it, now that I think of it.

Croc, regarding the case, it's got a reputation for being quiet, and I like the door on the front. I have modded a case before and enjoy that, but now my office is set up such that the case is in a cabinet behind a mesh door, so the only thing you see is lights. I'm a big fan of lights, but I am trying to make a quiet computer for a change! Like you, though, I find the sound of the optical drive winding up quite gratifying. However, during normal work, i'm shooting for quiet but not silent.

I'll change the memory and order...THANKS AGAIN!

[YvetteKuhns]

I'm a big fan of lights, but I am trying to make a quiet computer for a change!

If you play music or have children, you won't hear the computer! :D

[tpoynton]

I have a 15 month old, and another on the way...the office is in the dungeon; err, basement.

upgraded to 4gb of ram, settled on 32 bit Vista, and just placed the order! Now to tell my wife...

[Doc C]

I know it's a bit late but I know some good divorce attorneys!

I guess I spend too much time putting machines back together that others break at work so I've never built on on my own. I don't spend much time looking at the machine itself so I've never go in for the lights and such.

[satis]

I know it's a bit late but I know some good divorce attorneys!

Good divorce attorney? Isn't that a contradiction in terms? "Good attorney" alone should get you tarred and feathered.

Regarding the pc configuration, the only things I would change:

Hard drive... I'd run a RAID 0 array for the speed boost. Just back up anything you care about.
Motherboard... I prefer the nforce chipsets but that may just be me.
Processor... it almost makes more sense to go with one of the quad cores now. The price difference isn't that big and the performance boost can be major (at least if you're multi-tasking).

Oh, I'm probably too late. Oh well.

[tpoynton]

Thanks Satis! I appreciate the feedback, but the system should get here any day...I was trying to keep things under a thousand bucks, but failed. I put the money into memory, and the video card is probably more than I really need. Regarding the processor...I'm working with an athlon xp 2200 now with 512 mb of ram, which was state of the art 4-5 years ago - and, after bootup (which takes a while), I'm generally pleased with it for my regular, day-to-day tasks.

I like the idea of RAID...truth be told, I've never seen it in action!

Thanks for all the feedback; hopefully I'll have the system built this weekend and can post some pics!

[tpoynton]

update: i just finished assembling it, and when I powered it up the CPU fan didnt spin! it did after a while, but I was nervous...is this normal behavior? the processor is an E6750 core 2 duo, retail box - intel fan.

Doc, I searched google and came up empty with my terms :)

[YvetteKuhns]

Funny, I saw lots in Google. Here is one. (http://www.wirelessforums.org/alt-comp-hardware/cpu-fan-doesn-t-run-during-boot-up-7452.html)

I'm guessing it's some new technique that
allows the fan not to spin at all if CPU temp is too low, thus saving
some power.

[tpoynton]

Thanks Yvette; guess i had the wrong terms! I specified the core 2 duo; your ref talks about a P4...everyone knows but me, again!

it's installing vista now...I didnt read up on how to partition the HD before installing, but I'm glad to see there appears to be a utility in vista to do the job.

[YvetteKuhns]

I didn't specify the type of CPU. I just searched for "CPU fan does not spin at bootup" or something like that. But I have seen this before and wanted to find an example reference online for you to see. ;)

A while back, we used the hard drive utilities to partition hard drives, especially when using multiple operating systems. Lately, we simply use the Windows utilities. Not much call for dual boots right now.

[Doc C]

I remember when I first started in the IT department setting up mutli-boot machines which was a pain in the butt. You had to install the OSes in just the right order or they'd overwrite each other and you had to start all over again.

[satis]

Yea, I remember that. You had to install Windows first and Linux after (for instance) because the Windows install would just overwrite Linux's boot loader. Does it not do that any more? I haven't really tried for a long time... I just run Linux in a virtual PC inside of XP. With a core2duo and 2GB of RAM it doesn't really matter much (once you get past reconfiguring x-windows not to use 24bit color).

[Doc C]

The OSes we were installing were combinations of Windows 2000, NT, 95 and 98. We can still find some older machines that were originally configured for multiple boot. Although they'd been re-loaded, they always had the drives split with one small partition named SYSTEM and a large one called DATA.

[tpoynton]

Just wanted to thank everyone for the advice - got the computer together a couple of weeks ago, and it works great! both my CD drive and hard drive are set to slave, so I need to figure that out; I didnt see any jumper on the hard drive, and didnt bother with the CD yet. SATA is new to me, and I'm not even sure that makes a difference :dunce:

My trusty dreamweaver and fireworks MX both work on vista, so I'm in business!

[YvetteKuhns]

both my CD drive and hard drive are set to slave, so I need to figure that out; I didnt see any jumper on the hard drive, and didnt bother with the CD yet.

Your hard drive should show you were the jumper (if any) would go depending on your setup. I keep jumpers from old, discarded hard drives in case I need them. Do you only have one (internal) hard drive? Do you have the cable to the CD drive connected to the disk hard drive or the motherboard? I don't know if you have an issue with the connection and/or the jumper.

My trusty dreamweaver and fireworks MX both work on vista, so I'm in business!

Great! I don't use those programs much, but I do have them and they do work on Windows XP 64 bit, so I figured they would work on Vista.

[tpoynton]

Thanks Yvette - I took out the hard drive and looked, but I honestly didnt see any markings - although I did see the 8 pins (I think) where the jumper normally goes, but no jumper was present. I do have lots of extra hardware I can pull a jumper from. I'll look more closely in the daytime. I know exactly what you are talking about because i've seen them before (cable select, master, slave), but I didnt see them on this drive. it was an OEM drive, but that shouldnt make a difference, should it?

Cable goes straight from motherboard to hard drive, and same for CD. There are a ton of SATA ports on the motherboard; some were orange and others purple. as i recall, purple was for RAID setup.

Single hard drive; I was thinking of doing RAID, but then I decided against it. I'm pretty good about keeping my documents all backed up. Not good at all about keeping the OS and programs backed up...but I dont really mind reloading everything if need be. Well, I say that now, but I havent ever had to do it!

Looked through the manual for the HD (love google!). it basically says not to fiddle with the jumper, as it doesnt set the master/slave relationship. looks like i'll have to dig into the motherboard documentation!

[Doc C]

I've seen HDs that don't have jumpers all the time. I don't think I've had to jumper one in quite a while. SATAs are a PiTA. You gotta hook them up in the right sequence or the BIOS gives an error message that you've screwed up.

I run a complete backup once a week. Saved my butt a couple of times. I've only got about 240 gig total but never use more than about 50.

[satis]

SATA drives don't have master/slave settings. One cable per drive and you're done. Boot sequence is then set via BIOS. Unless I'm missing the point here. :p It happens.

[tpoynton]

SO I know both hard and cd drives are 'slave' because that's how they are detected during bootup according to the POST screen...or whatever it's called. Poking around the BIOS I see the boot sequence, and have it set to CD then HD. I really dont boot from CD that often, so I'll try switching that.

perhaps a better question is this: does designation as slave drive have any impact on performance?

[YvetteKuhns]

Cable goes straight from motherboard to hard drive, and same for CD. Single hard drive

Try disconnecting the CD drive, then reboot and see how the BIOS reports the primary (only) hard disk drive. If it still says slave and no jumpers are required, try disconnecting and reconnecting the hard disk drive. Reboot and see if the BIOS reports it as the slave. You don't need the CD drive connected while you do this and it should save a bit of time.

Are you using the NEW cables that came with the hardware? Since you bought all new hardware, I thought maybe you did. I remember buying a new CD drive or hard disk drive and trying to use the OLD cables. Duh! That only works when I swap similar items. (I build two identical computers for easy swaps and troubleshooting.)

Be sure to use the END of the cable to connect the drive (normally black) for a master drive and not the one in the middle (normally gray).