Support closing tickets

[mrblog]

Powweb tech. support consistently closes tickets created under the 'support console' regardless of whether the issue is resolved.

They don't give us a chance to reply to their non-answers. We have to open another ticket and then they say "you already opened a ticket on this" and close THAT ticket too - again without actually resolving the problem or providing a time-to-repair etc.

In some cases they have closed the ticket without ANY response at all. They just close it, with no follow-up/update.

[Doc C]

I just went through submitting a ticket to Support and funny thing is that I reopened it probably 4 or 5 times after it was "closed". I just used the Reopen Ticket feature.

It took a couple of days but I did get part of the problem resolved.

We all know that Support could be better but if this turns into a bash Support thread, it'll be closed.

[IanS]

Somewhere is a full explanation of the support ticket system and some of it's quirkiness. Closed doesn't mean resolved as far as I can remember.

I can't look now as I'm 'On Holiday' but I'm sure there is an explanation somewhere.

[patr547]

I just had an interesting experience with this actually. I submitted a ticket, and after a few back-and-forths, the issue was *somewhat* resolved, and the ticket was closed. Nobody at PW contacted me to tell me why my issue was only half-fixed.

So, I reopened the ticket. I simply stated that the issue was not completely fixed and I am still having the same problems (just with different numbers in my quotas--this is for my mailbox quota issue). So I got a response, asking for my mailbox password, which I provided.

Today, I got another reply. The subject of the ticket had somehow changed from "IMAP incorrectly reporting mail quota" to "Mailbox Not Working". And the reply I got was along the lines of "I was able to log into your mailbox and was able to send and receive mail successfully, please make sure your settings are....."

I don't understand what's going on here. In the support console all of these messages are linked together. Does support not read through the entire ticket when someone reopens something? Its absolutely ridiculous that I had to tell them my entire problem again when they could have much more easily just looked back to the previous messages.

[dmacminn]

The problem relates to the definition of Resolved as used by the Engineering Tracking System, versus how a customer might understand the word...

A ticket is "resolved" when
a) Engineering report out that they have either corrected the problem, or
B) they have reviewed the issue and state that the customer needs to make changes, or
C) they require additional information for analyzing the issue, or
d) they have made some change that they need the customer to review and respond to, or
e) they have taken whatever action they can to improve the situation and there is no additional action which can completely "fix" or "correct" the issue being experienced.

As you will note, "RESOLUTION" is from the perspective of Engineering in the Engineering tracking system; a Resolution moves an issue out of Engineering (hence, it is resolved, in so far as possible as far as Engineering are concerned).

Once a ticket returns from Engineering Support to Tier 2 a Resolution Contact will be initiated -- this will be a restatement of the action/state of the ticket, hopefully in "non-techno-speak" for the reporting customer.

The Default Resolution Contact method is via the Support Console -- You should use the "Create and View Support Ticket" option on the Ops Main tab to go to the Support Console area to follow the ticket and review the provided information as it completes. Any email contact sent out will also be logged in the Support Console view for the ticket.

Again, a ticket marked "resolved" is not necessarily repaired/corrected/ or "fixed" to the customer's satisfaction or expectation -- that is not implied -- it is simply resolved out of Engineering!

There are also some issues (initiated via the Support Console, Open a Ticket or via an email or telephone/chat contact) that will not be escalated into Engineering -- these may be reviewed and Tier 2 support will determine that they have the information necessary to resolve the issue without further escalation -- in such cases, they may also mark the matter resolved and return the resolution contact that closes the ticket (marking it as resolved removes it from the worklist of the system).

Tickets reopen when you respond via email with the ticket tracking number in the email or when you select re-open, or when a Chat/Telephone agent re-opens the issue for you during a contact -- the previous information is in the ticket -- but, generally only the last reported issue will be reviewed --- some tickets get very long and some people insist on hi-jacking their own ticket to handle a different issue or secondary issue (or tertiary issue!) which can get very confusing and result in the wrong issue being addressed. As a rule of thumb, include only closely related issues in the same ticket and consider multiple tickets (sequentially -- not at the same time!) for best focus on the problem. Reviewing Tier2 agents and Engineering level staff are very busy -- unfortunately they have to rely on the last problem statement/diagnosis to work forward from -- obviously, if it is inaccurate or misstated, it is likely that the correct issue will be addressed... which will require additional contacts.

(with tongue in cheek) ... a statement like, "website not working", while clear enough to the reporting customer, makes it nearly impossible to isolate/diagnose/analyze what the actual problem is --- the more information you provide on how, when, where and what you think the issue is, what you have tried and what you have observed (obviously only relevant detail/observations), the more likely the problem will be identified correctly and addressed...

SO, to summarize -- it is entirely possible, even likely, (inescapable even) that some "resolved" tickets will not be "fixed" or "corrected" the way you would like. Tickets are OUR internal method of tracking service requests to assist us respond effectively and improve our response --- obviously they are owned and managed by us, with a view to delivering the best possible service (as with any business that has to be the goal if you intend to continue in business) --- that being said, it is important to understand that the current "Beta Support Console" system reflects a view of our internal mechanisms designed to provide more information and allow you to participate more effectively in the resolution -- that does not mean, however, that you "own" the ticket or can mandate when Engineering resolve it or can insist that the ticket "stay open" as I have seen some customers try to dictate. Once a Resolution Contact is posted, the ticket closes -- you can re-open or we can reopen if additional relevant information is provided or of a fixed problem recurs --- but, obviously, it makes no sense to reopen an issue when Engineering have already advised that there is no correction or fix which they can make for the issue...

Unfortunately, some things are not fixable, others are only partially fixable, other things are repeatedly problematic (FrontPage extensions come to mind...), and then come the majority of issues which either we or you can correct....

[IanS]

That neatly repeats the info I referred to.

[Doc C]

I think the above should be a stinky...errr...sticky. No, Ian, not yours, Dwight's. :D

[patr547]

Interestingly enough, I just had to open a new ticket on this, because my last one just completely vanished into nothingness (along with a few other closed tickets, but not all of them).. weird. Anyhow, I got a reply, and the support rep told me that they will no longer be closing unresolved tickets any more (and that my issue was resolved). So, I check in the support console, and sure enough, it is still open, awaiting a reply from me!

And, naturally, the issue wasn't resolved, but it was nice of them to make me think it was for a minute!

[mjandreau]

There's a lot of "change" coming up to how we handle tickets.

Primarily being in that we won't be resolving tickets at all anymore. What we're intending to do, is more of a "we think your issue is resolved, do you agree", with a yes or no button in your control panel.

Obviously, if you don't respond in XX hours, it'll close itself. But at least we'll give you the option to say whether or not the ticket's issue has actually been fixed.

That's still a bit off in the future, but it's something that's being engineered as I write this. I think that'll be a big help (or disastrous, I'm not 100% sure yet. ;-))

[tpoynton]

IO think that'll be a big help (or disastrous, I'm not 100% sure yet. ;-))

indeed...since there does not appear to be an acceptable, informal means of communicating with powweb about problems that are irritating that 'counts' other than filing a ticket, I could see this being problematic for you.

I know someone (staff) said that not many tickets have been filed RE: the captcha implementation...but pretty clearly the issue was problematic for many on the forum. My thought was to 'vote' with a ticket to support...for some here, the issue would not be resolved until captcha is removed, and the ticket would not be resolved to satisfaction, perhaps ever.

[mjandreau]

The stats were correct that were provided. The number of people who've "complained" about Captcha via a support ticket are few to none.

The real people "complaining" about it here on the forum only represent roughly a tenth of a percent of the overall users.

With any release, people are going to dislike it. As in this case, you folks dislike it. If the majority of people don't voice their opinion about disliking it, it's likely that it's not going to change.

We are, however, going to continually make improvements to it. It'll never be "perfect", because honestly, no one likes captcha (most of us, included) anyway. We'll keep trying to make it more human friendly, but robot unfriendly. Maybe version two will be more of a site key, than a captcha, who knows.

[patr547]

I hate to veer off the subject so much, but it's kind of in the same ball park at least.. Mike, do you know what's going on with the suggestion/wishlist area? I really think it's a great idea, at least, if PW actually pays attention to it, but it hasn't had anything added to it since 6/8/07.

[tpoynton]

The real people "complaining" about it here on the forum only represent roughly a tenth of a percent of the overall users.


the forum currently has 6456 members, which represents but a small sample of powweb customers. of those 6000 or so, there is a small # who are 'active' by visiting, say, once per month.

If you view the active members as a representative sample of powweb customers, the % of powweb customers indicating some 'issue' with captcha is higher than a tenth of a percent...

just trying to put this in an equitable perspective :)

[Croc Hunter]

You can't count the people who rarely/never use OPS or complain as a "like it" vote. The fact they never use it in the first place is telling enough. There's just one to many things that time out, boot me out, close my tickets, etc, in general kick me out of my own account. I'd like to think the people who do use OPS and any support method the most would be the valued opinions.

[Doc C]

How many here are complaining? Using the 6000 figure, how many would have to complain to reach the .1 of a percent? Hmmmm...

600 - 10%
300 - 5%
150 - 2.5%
75 - 1.2%
(my math gets fuzzy beyond this but you get the point)

But it gets down to 6.

I'd say Mike is pretty close.

Note: The homepage of the forum says there are over 14,000 members.

[mjandreau]

Yea, I'm curious where the "6456" came from.

The stats read: Threads: 66,535, Posts: 423,871, Members: 14,484

That's forum members, not total PowWeb customers. Based off a rough guess, there's less than 20 people on the forum that have repeatedly complained about the captcha.

Even based off of the 14 thousand number, that's less than half a percent. Factor in all of the PowWeb members, it's probably more like a hundred of a percent, than a tenth.

But that aside, I know some people hate the captcha. It's a dead horse at this point. Stop kicking.

[YvetteKuhns]

Primarily being in that we won't be resolving tickets at all anymore. What we're intending to do, is more of a "we think your issue is resolved, do you agree", with a yes or no button in your control panel.

Obviously, if you don't respond in XX hours, it'll close itself. But at least we'll give you the option to say whether or not the ticket's issue has actually been fixed.

I know I mentioned this method several times on the forum, because I have a client on another host that does this. I like this method, because the customer has a chance to check if the problem is resolved to his/her satisfaction and both parties can agree to close the ticket. The ticket can still be reopened or a new ticket can be created if old problems reoccur or new problems arise.

I wonder how many hours will be allowed. The other web host had 3 days which was a problem for a client who went away for a long weekend. Stuff happens. Still, for most people, 3 days is a reasonable time. Most people forget to close tickets when a problem is resolved, so I like this method better.

[Doc C]

OK, this is not another CAPTCHA thread but about Support closing tickets. Please direct further posts regarding CAPTCHA to the correct thread.

Thank you.

[mjandreau]

I wonder how many hours will be allowed. The other web host had 3 days which was a problem for a client who went away for a long weekend. Stuff happens. Still, for most people, 3 days is a reasonable time. Most people forget to close tickets when a problem is resolved, so I like this method better.

I believe we're also going with three days.

You can always reopen a closed support ticket, though. Even after those three days are up. For any ticket, there's always a "reopen" option, even if you were the one who closed it yourself.

[dmacminn]

Tickets can be reopened within a reasonable time even after they close (3 days post resolution)-- that hasn't (won't) change. But, once the ticket comes back with a Resolution Contact the fact that it is open does not mean that any additional work is being done on it -- essentially, the change is just bookkeeping -- most people simply can't grasp that a ticket closes when we finish work on it --- the new change will simply avoid the repeated compliant that "you closed my ticket and it isn't fixed", by those who don't understand how the ticket system works...

And, while we clearly have an honest desire to resolve issues that are under our control (reflect issues with your account) --- tickets are not opened or managed by mutual consent -- tickets are opened as part of our process to manage/resolve/assist with problems ... Again, to be clear, tickets resolve when action on them ends --- not necessarily when the issue is "fixed" or addressed in the way a specific customer wants. For that reason, I would strongly disagree with Yvette's implication that tickets are only closed by mutual consent -- they stay open for a while after the resolution contact to allow customers to update an open ticket (rather than a closed one, as is the current process) -- but there will still be situations in which which either cannot "fix", "correct" or "Take the action desired/requested by the customer" -- in those cases, clearly, once we have made that determination, the ticket will close.

My point here is that we are allowing you to see "inside" the resolution process and get better information and control as we work together toward solutions -- but, the ticket process is internal to our support process -- you can view the process and participate in it, but you don't control whether a ticket is opened, remains open, or is resolved without the solution you would like to see...

I say this simply because, as I noted in the earlier discussions of the issue with MySQL, there was rarely anything the Support team could do with respect to an individual account that was required as action -- in this case, we simply used tickets to identify trends -- we almost never made any change to the account in question. If a trend (tickets opening re a specific MySQL server) was identified, then Network Operations would be prompted to review the performance and take additional action to resolve the issue generally (suspensions, server restart, jobs cancelled, etc.).

So, to be crystal clear -- it's not Your ticket -- its our ticket re an issue identified on your account. Generally, that may not amount to an effective difference, since we'll arrive at a solution that suits both parties -- but, regardless, you don't own the process to insist that a ticket be opened or re-opened -- we have to make that decision based on available information and ticket history. I say that only for the very small vociferous minority to try to argue that its not solved until its solved to their satisfaction and they "insist that the ticket stay open until x happens" -- in a shared webhosting environment, with resources, including support resources, constrained, that is not always going to be possible... thankfully, the great majority of customers understand that many things that "break" on a website may require action on their part and that Support simply can't provide webdesign advice or remedies for applications/scripts that they have chosen to operate...

So, returning to the orignating post of the thread ... there may continue to be situations in which a ticket is resolved, even though the "issue is not resolved" to a particular customer's satisfaction.... if you properly understand how the support system works, that should be easily understood as a possible, though infrequent outcome...

[tpoynton]

Yea, I'm curious where the "6456" came from.

not kicking...but the # is from the member list (http://forum.powweb.com/memberlist.php).

lies, damned lies, and statistics...

[mjandreau]

If I'm familiar with how the vBulletin software work, the "members list" only shows people who've actually posted something.

Which is kinda disheartening, that more people have signed up and never posted, than signed up and posted.

I'm sure the 14K also represents abandoned, deleted, and suspended accounts, too...

[Doc C]

That number seems low to me. I've done a Who's Online many a time and seen numerous people lurking about. And being the curious fellow that I am, I see that some of those have never posted.

[mrblog]

I believe we're also going with three days.

You can always reopen a closed support ticket, though. Even after those three days are up. For any ticket, there's always a "reopen" option, even if you were the one who closed it yourself.

That's not my experience. Maybe it changed since I tried it before. When I've tried to click "reopen", I just get an error saying the ticket is closed and cannot be reopened.

[patr547]

That's not my experience. Maybe it changed since I tried it before. When I've tried to click "reopen", I just get an error saying the ticket is closed and cannot be reopened.

There have definitely been changes recently, so if you've had problems before with re-opening tickets, my guess is that it's probably different now..

[dmacminn]

Yes .. and the changes have already shown demonstrable results ... our queues are down, percentage of tickets opened from The Support Console are up (which reduces handling time and the frustration of being asked for a security question), and time-to-resolution has dropped..

MJandreau has been one of the key driving forces behind many of these service experience improvements ... thanks Mike!

[YvetteKuhns]

Again, to be clear, tickets resolve when action on them ends --- not necessarily when the issue is "fixed" or addressed in the way a specific customer wants.

If no reply is given to the customer, he/she doesn't know what, if any action is taken. If you log into OPS, you may see a closed ticket and if the problem still exists, you try to reopen the ticket. If a reply had been given, the customer may not reopen the ticket or create a new one, but instead find another solution to the problem.

For that reason, I would strongly disagree with Yvette's implication that tickets are only closed by mutual consent -- they stay open for a while after the resolution contact to allow customers to update an open ticket (rather than a closed one, as is the current process) -- but there will still be situations in which which either cannot "fix", "correct" or "Take the action desired/requested by the customer" -- in those cases, clearly, once we have made that determination, the ticket will close.

I was simply discussing another web host and did NOT imply that PowWeb tickets are closed by MUTUAL consent. I said either or both parties could close the ticket and still be able to reopen the ticket, if necesssary, or create a new ticket.

Customers do not always take the desired action and neither does the web host. There is no need to panic if a ticket is closed, since it can be reopened. The reason for closing the ticket is simply for bookkeeping. Action was taken and the web host is done until/unless the ticket is reopened. As I said before, the web host cannot rely on the customer to close the ticket (for bookkeeping purposes), so they do that themselves. Makes sense to me.

There have definitely been changes recently, so if you've had problems before with re-opening tickets, my guess is that it's probably different now..

There have been times when we had to create a new ticket if/when we could not reopen an existing ticket. I haven't tried recently, but hopefully you can reopen tickets now.

Which is kinda disheartening, that more people have signed up and never posted, than signed up and posted.

I must admit that my FIRST account was abandoned. I created an account and forgot about it. I later created another account since I could not remember the username and password for the first one.

I'm sure the 14K also represents abandoned, deleted, and suspended accounts, too...

There had to be a lot of those. Many people are no longer participating here for any number of reasons. It is good to purge old, unused accounts.

[IanS]

Many people are no longer participating here for any number of reasons. It is good to purge old, unused accounts.
After the last purge a number of anomolies crept in so, here at least, I don't think it is worth doing. Maybe removing the section that says how many accounts and replacing it with an 'active' accounts count. Active being those that have posted within the last 3 months. 3 months chosen as that is the 'normal' cut off for closing old threads.