Yahoo! Better than Google?

[bdw]

During the past several months ive noticed a sharp rise in hits from Yahoo! in my stats. Whilst i hardly ever get any hits from google.

49.14% Google
45.70% Yahoo!
2.75% MSN
2.41% Windows Live

As you can see yahoo! is now creeping up on google in percentage for my search engine hits.

Not only that, with my other site which i have just re-opened, ive submitted sitemaps to both google and Yahoo!. Google has only indexed 2 pages so far since i submitted it well over a week ago. Yahoo! however indexed the pages between 24 and 48 hours.

Is there a shift in power? or is it Yahoo! and its users like my sites?

But then Yahoo! does send more bots than it should.

[rainbore]

It's just that you're ranking far better in Yahoo! than you are in Google. Google dominates search in most markets - certainly the US and the UK where they have at least a 60% market share. There's nothing wrong with being a big fish in a smaller pond, but obviously you always want to improve your rankings everywhere. Keep working on adding fresh, original content to your sites and adding links from related good quality websites and your performance in Google will improve steadily.

Google can also be fussier about the depth of indexing a site. Your sitemap will help guide their indexing, but doesn't guarantee every page will be indexed. Adding links will help dramatically here too, as will making sure you have plain, direct HTML links to your site's internal pages. Google's Webmaster Guidelines at http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=35769 has a very helpful section titled "Design and Content Guidelines" that explains it best. Good luck!

[YvetteKuhns]

One of my clients noticed that his ranking slipped on Yahoo, but he does better on Google. He is #7 on Yahoo and #1 on Google for his best keyword phrase. I submit sitemaps to Google. Maybe I should try that for Yahoo now. Something changed recently and I didn't expect things to change much. Top ten ranking is still there, but where there is room for improvement, there is more work to do.

[bdw]

well Yvette, i submitted my sitemap to google one day, then yahoo! the next day. Yahoo! had indexed all of my pages within 48 hours. Ok, at the time it was only 19 pages, but still google has only indexed (properly) 2 pages so far.

Its really frustrating because the reason i went down the road of using a sitemap.xml file was to have the adsense search facility index my sites pages even if the google index didnt show them (google states this). But for some reason this just aint working out.

If Yahoo! had the same sort of site search as google i would use it. Do They?

[tacimala]

Yes, they have functionality like that. http://builder.search.yahoo.com/m/promo

Also, just to use a few numbers here to show traffic patterns between the two engines - I have a client that ranks #1 in both Google and Yahoo for a keyphrase. Yahoo sent 149 visitors in one 24 hour period for that keyphrase while Google sent 217. For another keyphrase that ranks #1 in both engines, Yahoo sent 27 and Google sent 160. I don't think I've ever seen Yahoo have a bigger search volume than Google when rankings were the same in both engines, Google still delivers much more volume.

[bdw]

Yes, they have functionality like that. http://builder.search.yahoo.com/m/promo

unfortunately it doesnt have the same functionality as googles search. the codes that Google give you allow you to make the search results apear on a page on your own website. That is what im looking for.

[YvetteKuhns]

More people use Google, but if you improve ranking on Yahoo, you can get more visitors who use Yahoo. A normal sitemap should work for any search engine. We don't have a problem getting pages indexed, but it does appear that Yahoo indexes pages faster than Google. That is because there are more listings on Google.

[bdw]

getting frustrated now, google doesnt seem to like my website as its still not indexing anymore pages. Dont understand it, my sites are easily navigated and have plenty of link backs. Yahoo and MSN dont have any problems.

Anyone got any tips on getting other pages indexed?

[YvetteKuhns]

Which website is having problems with Google? (You have more than one.) Log into Google Webmaster Tools and delete your existing sitemap.xml file, then upload an updated sitemap.xml file to get other pages indexed. You can also create a sitemap.html page and link to it from your index page (at least until the search engines index the other pages).

[bdw]

Ive been updating my sitemap.xml file everytime i update my website, i then log in to both google webmaster tools and yahoo! site explorer and resubmit them.

Its actually both websites that im having problems with, they havent updated their index of my sites for over a month.

Yahoo! is fine, its been good to my websites, just not getting hits from yahoo for my music site even though im getting good rankings for certain keywords. I guess my target audience for that site prefer to use google. Its either that or they are all clubbing it abroad, lol.

[rainbore]

The backlinks profile on both of the sites in your forum signature is pretty weak. While you have a couple hundred links to both of them, they tend to be low quality links - the majority of which are from your forum signature on messages here and from your Amazon store. If you check the link: operator in Yahoo! Site Explorer, you'll see what I mean. Search on "building links" and you'll find some good advice.

Google's crawl rate is largely dependent on PageRank and the frequency with which it sees the pages being updated. So do keep adding fresh, original contents to your site and link to any significant additions from the sites' main pages. By increasing your PageRank score with good links and keeping the site fresh, you'll see a significant improvement in your sites' performance in Google.

[YvetteKuhns]

keep adding fresh, original contents to your site and link to any significant additions from the sites' main pages

I second that! Emphasis on ORIGINAL contents. I don't think that Amazon affiliate links count as "original" contents, though some people suspect that Google ads help Google ranking.

[YvetteKuhns]

Ive been updating my sitemap.xml file everytime i update my website, i then log in to both google webmaster tools and yahoo! site explorer and resubmit them.

Its actually both websites that im having problems with, they havent updated their index of my sites for over a month.

It often takes a month for robots to get through millions of websites before revisiting yours again. Resubmitting the site map often helps speed up the process unless your site has over 500 pages.

Yahoo! is fine, its been good to my websites, just not getting hits from yahoo for my music site even though im getting good rankings for certain keywords. I guess my target audience for that site prefer to use google. Its either that or they are all clubbing it abroad, lol.

Maybe you should ask your audience what keywords they used to find your site. Google Webmaster Tools only show the top 20. Maybe you can improve ranking on additional keyword phrases. Most people do use Google, but you can still improve ranking to get more visibility on Yahoo or MSN. As you said, rankings don't mean clicks. Maybe you can change the title or description to be more compelling. You want people to find your listing AND click to visit your site.

[bdw]

heres where i am when using these keywords on yahoo

uk hardcore mp3 - 3rd on page 1
Bouncy Techno - 4th on page 1
bouncy techno mp3 - 1st on page 1
hardcore mp3 files - last on page 2

And still not getting hits from yahoo! which to me is very strange.

on a better note, i think google is starting to regard my website better, when i was typing bdwrekordings into google my website would be last on page 1 (which was kinda wierd since the name is in the url) but now its coming first, so hopefully this is a sign that things are about to change.

[bdw]

actually, just checking my stats, someone came to my site via yahoo with:

free techno track - which is 8th on page 1

So things might be looking up here then.

[Doc C]

are you sure "hardcore" is such a good keyword? When I see it, I don't think music.

[YvetteKuhns]

are you sure "hardcore" is such a good keyword? When I see it, I don't think music.

I agree.

heres where i am when using these keywords on yahoo

uk hardcore mp3 - 3rd on page 1
Bouncy Techno - 4th on page 1
bouncy techno mp3 - 1st on page 1
hardcore mp3 files - last on page 2

And still not getting hits from yahoo! which to me is very strange.

So, maybe Yahoo users don't type those phrases. Your audience may prefer Google or other search engines. When looking at Google Webmaster Tools for statistics, do these phrases appear in the top keyword phrases that were searched AND clicked?

Many people use mp3 search sites to find "free mp3 downloads". I don't even think they type the genre, just a generic phrase. Ask your visitors how they found you. I ask my visitors when they fill out the online form or call me. It is interesting to know. Ask which search engine or website and what phrase since stats often show the most popular referrals but not all of them.

[Croc Hunter]

Have you heard of Taguchi Testing? Look it up, complex but very effective.

This advice is spot on for any website, and of course it is, it's from rainbore after all. Keep working on adding fresh, original content to your sites and adding links from related good quality websites and your performance in Google will improve steadily

[bdw]

getting link backs from quality related sites is very hard for a small website such as mines as the scene that i cater for "can" be elitist and only link to sites that their friends from the scene have done. So instead i have to settle for those link pages that are generated by CMS's which dont do anything for search engine ranking.

And the only way to get the big sites to link back is to add my link to my sig in their forum.

Yvette, most of the people that want my music wont really put in "Free MP3 Downloads" since they are more into dance music than anything else, and then again they are usually only into one sub-genre of dance music. Its just the way the scene is, you try and get someone who is a die hard fan of Gabba to listed to RnB, it aint gonna happen. So they search for their specific genre.

My stats actually show all of the search terms Yvette.

4 30.77% bdwrekordings
2 15.38% promotion hard dance
2 15.38% free techno track
2 15.38% bdw rekordings
1 7.69% uk hardcore free mp3 downloads
1 7.69% hard dance promotions

Poor isnt it, most of my traffic lately has been from social networking. hopefully it will pick up when i add more content via my news section where i will be adding what my artists are doing. And im also thinking of adding a section with self help articles aimed at artists.

[bdw]

looks like things have gotten better for my music site, google has added 1 more page to its index, lol.

3 down, 27 or more to go, lol

[YvetteKuhns]

Yvette, most of the people that want my music wont really put in "Free MP3 Downloads" since they are more into dance music than anything else, and then again they are usually only into one sub-genre of dance music. Its just the way the scene is, you try and get someone who is a die hard fan of Gabba to listed to RnB, it aint gonna happen. So they search for their specific genre.

I realize that many people could type the genre dance music, but others may not. Some people listen to many different styles that have different names such as house music, trance, dance, euro-pop and whatever else. If you can improve ranking for all of the appropriate genres for your website and general terms, that could improve visibility and possibly visits.

My stats actually show all of the search terms Yvette.

4 30.77% bdwrekordings
2 15.38% promotion hard dance
2 15.38% free techno track
2 15.38% bdw rekordings
1 7.69% uk hardcore free mp3 downloads
1 7.69% hard dance promotions

These are the only visits from Google?! That means there are not many people typing those phrases or clicking those phrases. That is why I suggested other terms. Try free dance music, free dance mp3s, free dance music downloads and phrases like that. You should write articles or reviews for music, so additional terms will appear such as the names of artists.

Poor isnt it, most of my traffic lately has been from social networking. hopefully it will pick up when i add more content via my news section where i will be adding what my artists are doing. And im also thinking of adding a section with self help articles aimed at artists.

Okay, info is on your to-do list. Do you have comparisons? For example, many artists who find me on MySpace say their music compares with another artist or genre I like. Many sound like Iron Maiden or Judas Priest, so when they tell us that, we know what to expect. In your case, it sounds like everyone is in the same genre, but perhaps you can still compare one artist or style with another artist or style.

Try adding text links in your web pages to other web pages in your website. Also add text links to external websites such as artist websites. Have them link back to your website whenever possible.

[bdw]

If you can improve ranking for all of the appropriate genres for your website and general terms, that could improve visibility and possibly visits.

Yup, already doing that with the different genre categories

These are the only visits from Google?!

Nope these are from all search engines unfortunately, but as i add more content that should change. As i said most of my hits are from social networking pages that i have aswell as my artists.

Try free dance music, free dance mp3s, free dance music downloads and phrases like that.

whooaaa, you do realise thats gonna be hard, considering the amount of websites that will be using those. Its worth a try but i wont hold my breath.

You should write articles or reviews for music, so additional terms will appear such as the names of artists.

well, on my to do list is articles, in fact ive already written an article that people can use on their own website about making money selling downloads which is on my other site and the article links back to my music site. as far as articles on the website, as i said im gonna (i think) add a section on self help for artists.


Try adding text links in your web pages to other web pages in your website. Also add text links to external websites such as artist websites. Have them link back to your website whenever possible.

Already been doing that ;)

This thread should be kept btw as theres are alot of valid info in this.

[YvetteKuhns]

whooaaa, you do realise thats gonna be hard, considering the amount of websites that will be using those. Its worth a try but i wont hold my breath.


I understand. Some of my clients have popular keyword phrases and we try our best to get as high as possible. If you can get in the top 50 for general phrases, that would help. If other people create text links with those phrases and link to your website, that would help.

As i said most of my hits are from social networking pages that i have aswell as my artists.


How are the text links worded on those pages? You can improve ranking for general phrases if you make the phrase the linkable part of the text. Many people use their business or website name to link to their websites and that is fine if your name is well known like IBM or Microsoft. You really want to have popular phrases link to your website if they are relevant to your website.

[bdw]

unfortunately Yvette, bebo only let you add the actual URL in the profile. If you add a link anywhere else, ie your blog post, they will replace it with thier own redirect URL that they can track to stop spammers, so they wont really work for SEO purposes. on MySpace, usually i post up relevant info on whats happenin on the website in my blog and put a link so they can get more info what im talking about. That sort of thing. Myspace does the same thing tho, put your url anywhere else and they will replace it with their own redirect url.

Suppose its for the greater good. What do we want, a decent link to our website or more spam?

[YvetteKuhns]

I never used bebo, but I know that MySpace hides links. MySpace accounts are free and not supposed to be used for commercial purposes, just networking. While those links are not found by search engines, they are still found by visitors.

Can't you participate in forums where you and your visitors can talk about music and post links to particular pages on your website? For example, you may mention a particular artist and link to that artist's page on your website. Those links would help when people are looking for those artists.

[bdw]

Already do Yvette, been on forums for years and built up a good reputation on them.

btw, i dont understand for commercial purposes, 1. I dont sell anything, my site is a net label, everything is free 3. why do they have "band" profiles with such big artists signing up for them selling CD singles and albums? They also have options for adding gigs. If that isnt commercial then i dont know wot is.

[YvetteKuhns]

MySpace allows bands to give a band profile and tour dates, but they usually have their own official website on a paid web host for commercial purposes. Yes, people do advertise and purchase music on MySpace, but MySpace probably makes money somehow.

Certainly, the music is a big attraction for me to bother with MySpace since the radio plays the same old classics or that (c)rap music. I find great rock bands on MySpace (and they find me). People can tell friends about friends and MySpace has paid advertising on their website, so they want us to spend time on their website. That is why they also have "free" games.

How does MySpace decide if your page is purely commercial? I don't know and I don't think they do anything unless someone reports you to them. They probably don't remove music pages unless someone posts someone else's music without permission. I see that a lot. I have reported spam (get rich quick schemes) and porn (phishing accounts trying to be friends). MySpace wants visitors, so they don't want to remove contents unless there is a good reason to remove them.

[bdw]

well, google has started adding my pages now (1 page every 3 days, better than nowt) and ive noticed that its started happening since im now indexed on DMOZ, dont know if its a coincidence or not.

oh btw, nothing wrong with rap music Yvette, well, oldskool anyway. ;)

[Seawitchartist]

Yahoo! seems to hate me, google I'm doing very well with, MSN which is being neglected here (?) does me plenty of favours.
Myspace....I've done quiet well out of it, but I have sometimes been my own victim, with some of my images I've posted in peoples profiles there out googling me, my own image on google Image search going to their profile and if it's travelled out of sight...tough!:rolleyes:

[YvetteKuhns]

If I type seawitch artist on Yahoo, your site is currently number 1. What were you typing to find your site on Yahoo?

[Seawitchartist]

If I type seawitch artist on Yahoo, your site is currently number 1.
LOL! By feeding it so much you've probably driven it into my corner! Search terms like Seawitch, Sea witch or Sea Witches are what people are likely to feed it...I'm doing very well on goggle ...I mean google..and even better on google UK...also on images.
At this moment in time Hunters Moon is a very active search term and I 'm well represented on google images there..twice in the top row.
Yahoo! seem to be shunning me as usual:p :D

[YvetteKuhns]

Hunters Moon doesn't appear as text in your web pages. It also doesn't appear in META keywords or descriptions. It doesn't appear in a web page name. So Yahoo won't rank your site highly for that phrase. You apparently have an image with that name and people search Google images to "borrow" images. Add keyword phrases to your site that you want people to type to find your site.

[bdw]

Well, its been a while since i posted in this thread thought i'd give an update.

Well, its getting better. Google has now indexed almost half of my pages on my music site, which still falls short of what i want. but it seems to be picking up so hopefuly by this time next year all my pages ive got so far will be indexed, lol.

But still Yahoo! is still ahead in getting me hits aswell as the amount of pages indexed.

tbh, ive been more bothered about adding content and getting link backs over the past couple of months, maybe that is helping.

[YvetteKuhns]

When I submit a sitemap to Google, the sitemap.xml file is read quickly and the pages are indexed within days. Some pages didn't even have much contents. Some of the websites had long URLs for dynamically generated pages. But none of the sitemaps had more than 300 URLs. Once URLs are listed, you can submit another sitemap that contains any unlisted URLs.

I think Google has a limit of 500 URLs per sitemap. I had one large e-commerce website with more than 2000 products. The top level pages and the second level pages were in the first sitemap. Google found the products in the third level pages after indexing the category pages on the second level.

[Malkao]

You must do a good job to your site promotion. From the data 49.14% Google and 45.70% Yahoo, it cant prove Yahoo is better than Google. Doing Google optimization is always more important.