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Thread: Venting about FP vs. EW

  1. #1
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    Oct 2015
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    Cool Venting about FP vs. EW

    I'd just like to take a minute here to VENT!!!

    I've had websites since the 90's when I first learned simple HTML. I started using Frontpage because it's really easy to use (WYSIWYG) and because it's very useful for many things, especially the server extensions. I have several large sites and so if I move or rename a page or image in my site, FPSE automatically changes all the links to it. There are several other features I like as well. I've been using FP 2003 for 13 years!

    I know that many people hate FP and that it puts extra crap in your html and other geeky reasons that I don't care about. For me, it's totally worth using, and since I have a large page and can use FP to log in live and make changes, it's invaluable. I have several others who work on my site, too, so it's great that we don't have to use FTP or publish, we can just edit the site live.

    OK, but the problem is, since they don't support it any more or make new versions, it's harder and harder to use with the newer versions of Windows. I had Windows XP for a very long time (until 2014), and FP mostly worked great with it (crashed more often than I'd like). I finally had to buy a new computer and update to Windows 8 and now 10. I have no problems with Windows, but due to their changes and improvements, there are quite a few things in FP that no longer work on my laptop! I can't login to the server administration because that uses Internet Explorer, and the newer browser no longer is recognized by Frontpage as IE, so it just won't work.

    I can't link directly to images any more. I have to find the image, copy it, then paste it into the page. I think I read this has something to do with 32 bit versus 64 bit.

    It crashes even more now.

    I started using Expression Web last year to edit my site because of these things. EW still uses a lot of the FPSE that I like. However, I really hate EW for many reasons.

    They moved so many of the menu items, which make them way more inconvenient or force me to move my hands more or click more. Like putting "recent sites" in a site menu halfway across the page, instead of in the File menu. Or putting the page break under Insert > HTML instead of just Insert.

    They put the X for exiting a page on each tab rather than on the far right. So now if I have a lot of pages open, I have to either keep moving my cursor over to click on each X or close the whole site and open it again. Before I just had to click on the X in the right hand corner however many times I needed.

    If I copy a group of interactive buttons from one page to another, it saves them all with different names (FP keeps the original names).

    I can no longer use the underline feature, so I have to do it manually in the HTML or do it in Frontpage. Something to do with CSS, which I don't really understand. All I know is that it looks underlined in EW but not in the browser and puts in a different coding than just <u>. (I don't know or understand CSS but I have some on my site that someone helped set up for me)

    Sometimes I still can't put in images directly. When I click on the images icon, it only shows my Windows folder, not my web site's folders.

    EW changes my coding randomly. I know, sounds crazy, but it does it. It recently changes a bunch of coding on many of the pages on my site so that the background was greyed out, and I had to figure out how to fix, and edit each page manually in the HTML. I'm still finding pages that I missed. It somehow took the coding from the interactive buttons and then duplicated it in the background, and that causes this. I have no idea why, but it does.

    When I edit in the HTML, EW will sometimes for no apparent reason delete a bracket in the coding, somewhere on the page where I didn't even touch. I'm not kidding and no, I'm not mistaken or crazy. This happens a lot. I will go in and edit one little thing, like the underline code mentioned above, go back to the design mode and see that there's a broken tag like p> or some other that is nowhere near where I was editing.

    I have some subwebs in my site, and they flat-out don't show up in EW, so I can only edit them in FP.

    Eventually, I won't be able to use FP at all. And now they're not making EW any more, either, so eventually I'll lose that, too.

    I'm not a coder. I want simplicity, yet I want to be able to do all these things I could do with FP. Someone needs to come up with a better, simpler program that works well. I know, I can use Dreamweaver but that's expensive and means learning a whole new thing.

    I believe there are many businesses and individuals who use FP still that would benefit from having a newer version or something similar. We're not going to all learn new stuff or hire a programmer. I can't afford that. One of my sites is technically a business site, but it started out as a fan site, and I don't make much money with it (just enough to pay for hosting costs), so I don't have the money to hire people. I would have to pay for it out of my own pocket.

    I tried to learn a CMS like Drupal, Joomla et al. (I tried to learn SEVERAL different ones and they were all too hard for me, over my head) and they don't have those FPSE so they're not as useful. I even paid someone via Freelancer to try to set it up for me, but I still couldn't really understand it or get him to explain how it worked to me. I'm not stupid, but I'm not a math or coding person. I'm a writer. I have a college degree, but I'm 54 and didn't have computers growing up. I never took a computer class. So these things don't come easy to me.

    I hate FTP and had a lot of problems using it with my site before. Also, it wouldn't really work well, with the multiple people that work on my site (not to mention, it would screw up all of my FPSE).

    It's just very frustrating to have to keep switching between EW and FP. Also, I don't know if it's just my laptop or a Windows 10 thing, but my laptop freezes up quite a lot, and it's always either Firefox, Chrome, IE or FP. Usually if I shut down all but one of those, it unfreezes and/or lets me save my files. So obviously these programs are not getting along....

    Please don't tell me that I should be using some other program or blah blah blah unless you know of one that works just like FP but better in all the ways detailed here. And btw my site is huge so even if I did use a CMS or anything, it would take years for me to move it all over to a new server and cost me extra money.

    I wish someone who knows how to program could come up with a great Windows APP that would work just like FP only better

    Thanks for listening to me vent!

    URL's removed
    Last edited by snowmaker; 7-15-16 at 08:07 PM. Reason: Moderator edit to remove URL's

  2. #2
    target='_blank' snowmaker's Avatar
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    Nov 2002
    West Virginia
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    Hello Suzanne. I can understand the frustrations you're having. But WYSIWYG editors confuse the heck outta me, hence I am somewhat of an 'old school' web guy, and a plain text editor and an FTP program are what I use and 'understand'. I realize that my sites aren't the same as your's being that different editing 'procedures' are needed. Also, I edited your post to remove the site URL's. If someone here requests to view your sites, please PM them the info. Thanks.
    -bruce /* somdcomputerguy */
    'If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.'

  3. #3
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    Oct 2015
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    OK thanks!

  4. #4
    Former Spam Filter (EU) IanS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Washington (THE original UK one!)
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    Have a look at Contribute from Adobe - it's up to version 6.5 now.

    I've used this (8yr ago) with 14yr students and they managed ok and there's features for managing multiple people editing the site.
    This is a Powweb customer
    helping Powweb customer forum.

    I am a customer just like you!!

    Some matters can only be answered by staff or support.
    Give it a go - ask here first!

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