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Old 8-1-03, 09:11 PM   #1
KenCarlson
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Propagation of MX Record

I recently signed up for an email account on eveyone.net. The first step in the setup process is modifying the DNS records of the domain you want to use.

I was tickled to see that Powweb had a one-click utility for modifying DNS for everyone.net email. I clicked the logo to change my settings at around 4:00am EDT on 8/1.

As soon as I did that, any email sent to any address on my domain was bounced by the PowWeb mail server. The change in DNS hasn't yet propagated to everyone.net yet (17 hours later), so I can't set up my account there.

When I try to use everyone.net's utility to check for proper DNS settings, I'm still failing.

In the mean time, all my mail is bouncing.

Forgive my ignorance, but isn't it true that changes in DNS (like the new MX record) are supposed to propagate much faster than changes in the name server?

Anybody have any ideas?

Ken
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Old 8-2-03, 01:05 PM   #2
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Cool

Usually email propagation takes less to propagate then DNS however I noticed that this is not always the case.

If you want to be re-assured, why not ask support if everything is correct from powweb's side?
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Old 8-2-03, 02:10 PM   #3
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If you are receiving mail from some place you haven't recieved mail from recently it will have to query DNS and should go to everyone.net correctly. If it is coming from somewhere that does send your mail frequently they will have the old MX records cached and will go to PW until the cache expires for those records. By RFC standards they shouldn't cache them longer than 24 hrs, so it should work soon, but some DNS servers are set to even longer--but with 24 hrs the vast majority should get to you.
 
Old 8-2-03, 05:53 PM   #4
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Okay, I'm 36+ hours into this changeover to everyone.net, and all email sent to my domain is STILL bouncing.

I've sent an email to support to ask about what the next step is... I think when someone modifies DNS info in their domain, it doesn't even start to propagate until PowWeb updates their zone record...

I really don't know the process. I understand the concept of propagation, but in the past, whenever I changed name servers altogether, it's never taken more than 24-36 hours.

Can someone explain the process for the propagation of a changed MX record? Does PowWeb have to do something in order to kick off the propagation? (that maybe they haven't done).

I know I should be patient and that 1-5 days is "normal", but I've never experienced propagation that's taken this long. I would think that at least SOME of the NSLokkup servers I use would show the new MX record by now.

With a web site, the propagation delay is really no big deal, becasue the WORST case is that visitors resolve to the old site and see the web content at the old host. If you keep both up-to-date, it doesn't matter at all. What is MAJORLY different about this is that while the DNS stuff is in limbo, ALL mail to my domain is BOUNCING. It's not like I can just check both mailboxes, catching some at my old mail server and some on the new... Until this is resolved, I get NO email!

Anyway, I'd love it if one of you DNS experts could explain the process for a modified MX record. Thanks in advance!

Ken
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Old 8-2-03, 06:03 PM   #5
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I don't know anything about everyone.net, so can't comment there.

Is the domain in question saybrooke.org? If so, it seems to be working with PowWeb accepting the connection. For example:

MX records
preference exchange IP address (if included)
10 mail.saybrooke.org [63.251.216.34]
20 spooler.powweb.com

SMTP session
[Contacting mail.saybrooke.org [63.251.216.34]...]
[Connected]
220 mail01.powweb.com ESMTP Postfix
HELO hexillion.com
250 mail01.powweb.com
MAIL FROM:<HexValidEmail@hexillion.com>
250 Ok
RCPT TO:<test@saybrooke.org>
250 Ok
QUIT
221 Bye
[Connection closed]

What exactly is the error text in a bounce message?
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Old 8-2-03, 06:07 PM   #6
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Thanks for replying... No, the domain is krcweb.com.

As soon as I hit the link to set my DNS for everyone.net mail service, SMTP was deactivated for the domain (krcweb.com), making all email sent to the domain bounce.

Until the DNS propagation happens and I'm up and running on everyone.net, I'm pretty much screwed on mail sent to krcweb.com.

I thought it was going to be pretty easy and painless, but it certainly hasn't been.

Here's the error message:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A message (from <carlsonk@comcast.net>) was received at 2 Aug 2003
22:11:42 +0000.

The following addresses had delivery problems:

<test@krcweb.com>
Permanent Failure: 554_<test@krcweb.com>:_Relay_access_denied
Delivery last attempted at Sat, 2 Aug 2003 22:11:44 -0000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ken

Last edited by KenCarlson; 8-2-03 at 06:14 PM..
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Old 8-2-03, 06:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by KenCarlson
Does PowWeb have to do something in order to kick off the propagation? (that maybe they haven't done).
All we can do is update the zone file (which, since January, happens about every five minutes). The propagation after that is out of our hands, of course.

For what it's worth, we've seen other people switching to everyone.net that had long propagation times. I can't tell you why that's the case, but if it's been 36 hours already, you should be hitting everyone.net within 24 hours...

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Old 8-2-03, 08:12 PM   #8
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I checked out you setup, this is what I got...

Getting MX record for krcweb.com... Got it!

Host Preference IP(s) [Country]
sitemail.everyone.net. 10 216.200.145.35 [US]

It seems to be pointing to everyone.net correct. I think everyone.net mail server is rejecting it...

This is what I get...
----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to sitemail.everyone.net.:
>>> DATA
<<< 554 <test@krcweb.com>: Recipient address rejected: Relay access denied (MTA:imta14)
554 5.0.0 Service unavailable
<<< 503 Error: need RCPT command

My understanding of smtp servers is this... when mail servers communicate to send mail, and the user is not on the server the receiving server things you are using it to relay to that user... hence the relay not allowed message. What I think is happening is you are not setup on the everyone.net service correctly--they are not looking for mail for you.

You can test this by telneting to sitemail.everyone.net port:25
"ehlo krcweb.com" (no quote on all of this)
"mail from:whatever@sendingemailaddress.com"
"rcpt to:test@krcweb.com"

and you will get
"554 <test@krcweb.com>: Recipient address rejected: Relay access denied (MTA:imta14) 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable"

I would get a hold of everyone.net's support to get you working, because they are bouncing your mail.

Also as a side note, if you had a second mx entry to the powweb server with a higher priority (ie 20, because your everyone.net is set to 10), powweb could server as a backup to their server. If their server became unavailable, it would go to PW. I can be more specific if you need it.
 
Old 8-2-03, 11:13 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by mjp
All we can do is update the zone file (which, since January, happens about every five minutes). The propagation after that is out of our hands, of course.
Well, this has me miffed. I clicked that darned "Everyone.net" button to setup my DNS info at 4:00am on 8/1. Here's a message I got from PowWeb Support at 7:00pm tonight (39 hours later):

Quote:
I checked our name servers and they were not updated to your change so I reloaded your zone file. Please allow about 15 minutes and then run a dig against NS3 to make sure the chage is visible, if so allow about 48 hours.
So, 39 hours after I initiated the change to my MX record, PowWeb FINALLY updated the zone file. Mjp, that 39 hours is a long 5 minutes, don't ya think? This should have happened automatically, no? Because of this delay, I've been completely without email all this time, and the propagation process just started a few hours ago!

Oh well, at least I'm finally on my way to getting this all straightened out. Thanks to all who've participated in this thread in an attempt to help me out.

Ken
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Old 8-3-03, 10:26 AM   #10
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What is the advantage of everyone.net? It seems far overpriced compared to other offerings. I use SpamCop - $30/year, excellent and flexible spam filtering, virus filtering, currently NO mailbox size limit, POP/SPOP/IMAP, the best web-mail client I've seen, and multiple profiles for different addresses. No DNS changes needed - just have PowWeb forward your mail to SpamCop.
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Old 8-3-03, 10:56 AM   #11
KenCarlson
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Quote:
Originally posted by stevel
What is the advantage of everyone.net?
Even if you use an alias in PowWeb to forward your email to an outside account, you are still prone to outages when problems happen on the PowWeb mail servers. Case in point - Even though my primary address is a PowWeb alias to the mailbox provided by my ISP, when the mail01 server had all that trouble and messages got lost, I was still getting effected.

Given all the problems on mail01 lately, I was thinking that everyone.net would be a more reliable solution for email. I figured if you want a good steak, don't go to a pizza parlor, right? Everyone.net does email - that's their business focus - so I figured they might be more reliable. Setting up an account there (paying the $36 for a year) and modifying my DNS to bypass PowWeb mail servers altogether was something I thought might be a good long-term solution. Everyone.net allows you (supposedly) to do everything that you can do with mail on a PowWeb package, without having to deal with PowWeb's notoriously unreliable mail01 server.

However, after actually trying the service, I've abandoned my attempt to change to Everyone.net and have asked for a refund.

When I finally got the DNS issue straightened out and was able to actually use the everyone.net interface to set up my mail accounts, I found the interface to be cumbersome compared to PowWeb's OPS interface. There were also things with aliases that I couldn't do on everyone.net that I had done with PowWeb.

To make a long story short, after all the trouble I went through to change over to Everyone.net, I switched right back to PowWeb.

Thanks again to all who have helped me in this thread. These forums are the BEST (another thing that Everyone.net doesn't have that PowWeb does). Here's hoping that the good folks at PowWeb crack the code on email reliability, because evrything else is so great!

Ken
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Old 8-3-03, 11:11 AM   #12
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You're absolutely right. Everyone.net isn't all it's cracked up to be. I used it a long time ago, before my PowWeb time.

I hated every minute of it.
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Old 8-3-03, 11:41 AM   #13
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The issues with PowWeb's mail servers have never affected my mail forwarding, and I've never lost a message, as far as I know.
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Old 8-3-03, 12:12 PM   #14
KenCarlson
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Quote:
Originally posted by stevel
...and I've never lost a message, as far as I know.
Hehehe.... It's the "as far as I know" part that has always worried me. I have my primary address aliased to both a powweb mail box and my ISP mailbox, and during the outages on mail01, I wasn't getting mail in either place. I could sent directly to my ISP account, but when I sent test messages to my powweb alias, they didn't show up in either mailbox.

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